Progressives (Liberals)

Katie Halper
@kthalps
·
2h
"Jews like me are tired of
@AIPAC
claiming to speak for all Jews & conflating Jewish identity w/ unquestioning support of Israel, which is an antiSemitic trope." Me, telling Fox that criticism of Israel isn't anti-semitism & that
@IlhanMN
's critics are antisemites & Islamophobes

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Self-hating Jews have long supported antisemitic false accusations against their Jewish brethren. It is really shameful.

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@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

Not only that but I doubt Israel would forget about them. They wouldn't let Palestinians be a sovereign country independent from Israel oppression.

That's silly. How is Israel oppressing them?

revelette1 wrote:

I wish united nations could just ignore Israel and the US (until we get a president who finally sees the Palestinian side) and declare Palestine a state and independent of Israel and contribute to their state to make their state viable with arms and aide.

Giving the Palestinians arms is a bad idea unless the goal is to see a large number of dead Palestinians. The Palestinians will use the weapons to try to murder Israelis, and the Israelis will engage in self defense until the threat is neutralized.

The world can indeed unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state. However, they cannot force Israel to turn over any territory. The only way to get Israel to turn over territory is by offering them peace in exchange for it. A unilaterally-recognized Palestinian state will be composed of Area A alone (plus Gaza).

revelette1 wrote:

Forget the issues which (I know easy for me say sitting here on my computer...) which make a solution impossible such as return to the 1967 (right year?)borders.

I agree. Let the world recognize a Palestinian state that is composed of Area A alone (plus Gaza).

revelette1 wrote:

Jerusalem should be independent too so that all people of all faiths or ethnic background so to speak can equally share in the state of Jerusalem. But I know that is just a pipedream which will never happen.

Indeed it won't. Jewish holy sites are a matter for Jews alone. Other faiths can butt out and mind their own business.

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I apologize for not being here while keeping my thread open. It is much too important that I feed it than to have it die while establishment types are doing their best to kill off democracy.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

kill off democracy.

We are a representative democracy. Real Democracy is nothing more than mob rule. Your mob is not big enough yet, let's hope it stays thay way.

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Greenwald: How Can Democrats Support Trump’s Push for Regime Change to Seize Venezuela’s Oil?

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

"Jews like me are tired of
@AIPAC

Definitely not a new phenomenon, edgar. Many of the political writers I attend to (eg Josh Marshall, Peter Beinart, Paul Waldman etc) grew up in Jewish families and have been among he most vocal and erudite critics of AIPAC since the early part of this century.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Greenwald: How Can Democrats Support Trump’s Push for Regime Change to Seize Venezuela’s Oil?

It's a fair question though probably far easier to ask than to provide any fulsome answer. Recall Greenspan's remark after his book was published (10 years ago?), "It's a pity we can't speak honestly and state that the Iraq

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Greenwald: How Can Democrats Support Trump’s Push for Regime Change to Seize Venezuela’s Oil?

It's a fair question though probably far easier to ask than to provide any fulsome answer. Recall Greenspan's remark after his book was published (10 years ago?), "It's a pity we can't speak honestly and state that the Iraq War is about oil".

Who exactly is Glenn referring to here?

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@revelette1,

Patience is in order here I think. This thing cannot be solved now; they killed their best chance with Rabin. The only rapid solutions involve war and/or genocide.

What these new dem housemembers are doing seems useful to me. AIPAC terrorises the Washington regulars, and it's a big part of the problem.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Lebanon is slowly gelling, though, after years of civil war. And that civil war had a lot to see with Palestinian refugees establishing permanent presence there and thus tipping the delicate balance between the three main groups (Shia, Sunni, Christians).

I'm no specialist of this area, though I have been in Beirut for work once. I enjoy tourism in the so-called Holy Land, particularly in East Jerusalem and West Bank. Pals are smart and nice people, very creative. The Israeli Jews too of course, but they tend to be more touchy and aggressive in my experience, maybe because of the French thing. I avoid discussing politics with them as it can quickly degenerate.

The two state scenario is dead. I can only hope that the Isrealis and the

Palestinians will one day "gell" too. It's that, or more slaughter...

I share your sentiments in all of this. In particular I have found the Israeli Palestinians (most appear to be Christians ) to be very kind & creative, and much more amiable & less abrasive than ordinary Israelis.

The U.S. Navy's relations with Israel had been very bad since the USS Liberty incident in 1967. I was a squadron commander on USS Nimitz in the late 1970s when it made the first ever Navy port visit to Israel. To mark the occasion, then Israeli PM Begin and a large delegation flew out to the ship as we passed Crete enroute to Haifa. In the delegation was Ezer Weizman, who was then the head of the Israeli Air Force. He invited the Air Wing & Squadron Commanders to a thee day tour of IAF bases (and the inevitable trip to Masada). It was an interesting experience, and I found Weizman to be a remarkably tolerant and broadminded individual (unlike many others). The IAF tours were fascinating, and one could readily see the creativity and adaptability that experience had forged in their squadron operations. I did get a bit tired of watching gun camera flicks from various engagements with the Egyptian & Syrian Air Forces, but recall vividly their pilot's assessments of their Egyptian & Syrian foes. They said the Egyptians were more technically proficient, but very predictable in their tactics, while the Syrians were more variable in their skills, but highly aggressive and unpredictable - overall more dangerous.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

(and the inevitable trip to Masada)

:-)) Thanks for that, George, made my evening...

Quote:

the USS Liberty incident

So, what's your interpretation of this "incident"? I have been on message boards where the issue was hotly debated. I know next to nothing on modern warfare from a technical standpoint (boats, planes, radio protocols, etc...) so I couldn't make a clear call for or against the arguments presented. You know this area inside out. What do you say?

Edit: Interesting what you say about the airforce chief. I have long observed that Tsahal is the most sane part of the Israeli society, oddly enough.

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@Olivier5,

The U S Liberty incident was an obvious attack by Israel on a known u s ship to try to cover the fact Israel was readying a war against the Arab nations aided in their cover up by the u s military.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
the USS Liberty incident

So, what's your interpretation of this "incident"? I have been on message boards where the issue was hotly debated. I know next to nothing on modern warfare from a technical standpoint (boats, planes, radio protocols, etc...) so I couldn't make a clear call for or against the arguments presented. You know this area inside out. What do you say?

Liberty was a large Navy communications intercept ship. It was operating off the Sinai peninsula, monitoring the communications of Israelis and Egyptians in the then rapidly unfolding 1967 campaign there. I suspect the Israelis did not want us to learn about their plans to invade Egypt proper in this campaign. A squadron of Israeli Mirages was launched from the Hatzur base in Israel and attacked and repeatedly strafed the unarmed ship (painted in Navy colors and flying the American flag). During the attacks the ship repeatedly broadcast its location and identity on numerous frequencies monitored by the Israelis. About an hour later a second wave of Israeli aircraft resumed the attack. The ship was badly damaged and about 40 of the crew were killed. The incident was played down by our political leadership, but the folks in the Sixth Fleet (Mediterranean) and the Navy as a whole understood the event very well, and knew it was a deliberate attack carried out by the Israelis to mask their intentions in the 1967 War, which they initiated.

The event left a lasting impression in Navy circles, and, despite our government's formal support for Israel, the Navy remained decidedly cool (almost hostile) towards Israel for a long time afterward.

The port visit to Haifa I described was unusual in several respects and directed from the Pentagon in Washington. It was clearly a political move, initiated by the Israelis to heal some old wounds (hence the senior delegation and extended hospitality).

3 Replies

Quote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
‏Verified account
@AOC
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted The Forward
Unlike this President, Rep. @IlhanMN demonstrated a capacity to acknowledge pain & apologize, use the opportunity to learn abt history of antisemitism,+grow from it while clarifying her stance.

I’m also inspired by Jewish leadership who brought her in, not push her out, to heal.
10:43 AM - 12 Feb 2019

I like this woman more each day.

1 Reply

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

Quote:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
‏Verified account
@AOC
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted The Forward
Unlike this President, Rep. @IlhanMN demonstrated a capacity to acknowledge pain & apologize, use the opportunity to learn abt history of antisemitism,+grow from it while clarifying her stance.

I’m also inspired by Jewish leadership who brought her in, not push her out, to heal.
10:43 AM - 12 Feb 2019

I like this woman more each day.

I think you are being far too kind here.

Rep. Ihans' original comments were reprehensible, and her subsequent retreat from them was an obvious tactical move to turn down the heat - hardly a virtue.

The insipid comments from OAC, praising Ihan's supposed "great ability to grow and learn" were, in themselves, a bit laughable. However beneath it all she reveals herself as a dangerous progressive who, like others before her, including Lenin and Mao, insists on being judged by the supposed goodness of her intentions, as opposed to the results she achieves or the ignorance and stupidity revealed in her proposals.

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@georgeob1,

I am not going to get in a fight with someone having their period.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

I think you are being far too kind here.

He will not insult a Muslim for many reasons. Besides the obvious state of intimidation that Islamics have successfully enforced on liberals, he (the Left) needs an ally to tear this country down.

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@georgeob1,

Makes a lot of sense, thank you.

0 Replies

disgraceful

The Democrats agreed to give Trump a total of around 3.3 billion for his wall,

2 Replies

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