RABEL222
 
  6  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 09:51 pm
@edgarblythe,
No republicans on your list. Isent that a Trumpian fact?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 11:36 pm
Quote:
The Republican Party has a new trio of Democratic villains: Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

The House GOP midterm strategy largely centered on trying to tie every Democrat to now-Speaker Nancy Pelosi — and it failed spectacularly. So now GOP leaders and the National Republican Congressional Committee are turning to the superstars of the House Democrats’ freshman class as their newest targets.
Politico
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 11:38 pm
@blatham,
America....
Quote:
has a new trio of Democratic villains: Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 11:38 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Politicians with some spine can make a big difference in international affairs.
Yes.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 03:34 am
@georgeob1,
Israel has been a fact on the ground for two or three generations, independently of British or French influence. Most Muslims i know, including some Palestinians, have accepted the presence of Israel in the region. Yes, it was unfair, but many other things are, and as Machiavel pointed out, one single large injustice over a short period of time is more easily forgiven by people than a long series of small injust actions.

What irks Muslims is primarily the continuous flauting of international law since 1967, the permanent humiliation of Palestinians.

In short, Israel's contemptuous attitude towards the rights of Palestinians fuels antisemitism in the Muslim world and beyond. They should know better.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 03:50 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
What irks Muslims is primarily the continuous flauting of international law since 1967, the permanent humiliation of Palestinians.
There is no such flaunting of international law -- at least, not on Israel's part.

Olivier5 wrote:
In short, Israel's contemptuous attitude towards the rights of Palestinians fuels antisemitism in the Muslim world and beyond. They should know better.
There is no such contemptuous attitude either. Israel merely defends themselves when Palestinians try to murder them.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 06:41 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Yes, it was unfair, but many other things are,

Was/is anti-Semitic persecution in Europe unfair? Where/how are Jews or anyone else supposed to live on Earth that averts persecution? Is there a way to live in peace regardless of ethnicity/nationality/religion?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 09:22 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Israel has been a fact on the ground for two or three generations, independently of British or French influence. Most Muslims i know, including some Palestinians, have accepted the presence of Israel in the region. Yes, it was unfair, but many other things are, and as Machiavel pointed out, one single large injustice over a short period of time is more easily forgiven by people than a long series of small injust actions.

What irks Muslims is primarily the continuous flauting of international law since 1967, the permanent humiliation of Palestinians.

In short, Israel's contemptuous attitude towards the rights of Palestinians fuels antisemitism in the Muslim world and beyond. They should know better.


I agree with the substance of your comments, however, the fractious intolerance of the Arab world, particularly in the Mid East has so far proven to be a sufficient excuse for Israeli leaders and people to rationalize not taking a chance on the matter.

Sadly, the model of a democratic and tolerant multi ethnic & cultural state in the former Palestine may well have made a big difference in the region,
However, consideration of the fact that the formerly most tolerant and pluralistic state in the Mid East, Lebanon, has itself fallen into ethnic and religious discord, revolution and institutional intolerance, strongly suggests otherwise.

Politics is a reflection of the contradictions abundant in our common human natures. Some problems like these resulting from it, have no solutions, absent the external imposition of an overwhelming and unifying external force ( giving the former contenders a new, common, enemy).
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 09:49 am
@georgeob1,
Lebanon is slowly gelling, though, after years of civil war. And that civil war had a lot to see with Palestinian refugees establishing permanent presence there and thus tipping the delicate balance between the three main groups (Shia, Sunni, Christians).

I'm no specialist of this area, though I have been in Beirut for work once. I enjoy tourism in the so-called Holy Land, particularly in East Jerusalem and West Bank. Pals are smart and nice people, very creative. The Israeli Jews too of course, but they tend to be more touchy and aggressive in my experience, maybe because of the French thing. I avoid discussing politics with them as it can quickly degenerate.

The two state scenario is dead. I can only hope that the Isrealis and the Palestinians will one day "gell" too. It's that, or more slaughter...
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 09:56 am
@livinglava,
Europeans are responsible for the Holocaust, not the Palestinians. So if someone should have given up some land for the creation of a Jewish state, to be fair it should have been Germany. Of course that option was not what the Zionist movement wanted so it never was a realistic option. But the creation of Israel was unfair to the Palestinians, that's quite obvious i think.
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:10 am
@edgarblythe,
I am thankful all the parties involved came to a deal to avoid another shutdown. Everybody gave in a little, it is the way our system of balance is supposed to work. The alternative is that no one gives in and the citizens of our country becomes casualties of a partisan war. Let the partisan extremist rant and sneer, at least government workers will get paid and government continues to run the way it is supposed to.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:28 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
the fractious intolerance of the Arab world, particularly in the Mid East has so far proven to be a sufficient excuse for Israeli leaders and people to rationalize not taking a chance on the matter.
What chance haven't Israeli leaders taken?

Israel has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a two-state solution. Ariel Sharon even tried pulling back unilaterally to see if the Palestinians would peacefully set up their own state without an agreement.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:30 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
The two state scenario is dead.
There are still going to be two states. The borders of the Palestinian state are just going to be Area A alone (plus Gaza).

Olivier5 wrote:
I can only hope that the Isrealis and the Palestinians will one day "gell" too. It's that, or more slaughter...
What's wrong with simply walling the Palestinians off and forgetting them?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:31 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
But the creation of Israel was unfair to the Palestinians, that's quite obvious i think.
That's like saying that the return of Nazi-looted artwork is unfair to the current owners of the stolen property.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:36 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
What's wrong with simply walling the Palestinians off and forgetting them?

That's advocating for a crime against humanity.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:41 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
That's advocating for a crime against humanity.

Keeping who you don't want out of your country is not a crime against humanity. Saying that is a crime against thinking people and sovereign nations.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:49 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
That's advocating for a crime against humanity.
How is it a crime against humanity to prevent Palestinians from entering Israel?
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:49 am
@Olivier5,
Not only that but I doubt Israel would forget about them. They wouldn't let Palestinians be a sovereign country independent from Israel oppression.

I wish united nations could just ignore Israel and the US (until we get a president who finally sees the Palestinian side) and declare Palestine a state and independent of Israel and contribute to their state to make their state viable with arms and aide. Forget the issues which (I know easy for me say sitting here on my computer...) which make a solution impossible such as return to the 1967 (right year?)borders. Jerusalem should be independent too so that all people of all faiths or ethnic background so to speak can equally share in the state of Jerusalem. But I know that is just a pipedream which will never happen.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:51 am
@revelette1,
Trump turned down 20billion over a year ago in a wall-for-DACa deal.

Trump turned down 1.6 billion for border security and proceeded to shut down the government for it in December.

The threat of another shutdown ended up giving Democrats more leverage in negotiations and they lowered the dollar amount. Trump is about to sign (hopefully) 1.3 billion for border security and zero wall money.

What a great negotiatior this President is.


This is a win for Democrats in divided government. No way around it. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is just wrong, plain and simple.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Feb, 2019 10:55 am
@maporsche,
Next be on the lookout for meaningless protest votes from a lot of politicians in safe districts. Followed by wing-nut supporters chastising those who voted for the funding bill.

The bill will overwhelmingly pass the house and senate which is the only reason why some will vote no. It’s a game. Just don’t be fooled by it.
0 Replies
 
 

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