coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 01:41 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
But Muslims cannot forget so easily; it remains an open wound in their heart

Islam has no heart. Why would you pound salt up the ass of a religion that teaches hate? And is trying to wipe out Israel, a mission clearly stated by Hamas. You are misinformed or willfully ignorant.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 02:05 pm
@coldjoint,
I'm talking of Muslims, not Islam. Muslims do have hearts alright.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 02:19 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I'm talking of Muslims, not Islam.

I never said you wern't. May I asked what religion Muslims practice? The reality is that the more Muslims you have the more terror you have. Some Muslims intend to do what Muhammad obligated them to do.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 03:26 pm
In regard to AIPAC, it is also worth noting that political fear in the United States has been a potent factor, too. When Eisenhower took office in 1953, he felt that he had been blind-sided by the coup in Iran, and he never trusted Central Intelligence again. When the Brits and the French dropped paratroopers on the Suez Canal in 1956, he refused to support them in any way, and he did send the fleet to Beirut to protect Americans in the middle east. Israel gleefully sent two armored columns into the Sinai, so Eisenhower issued an executive order to prevent private citizens in the United States from transferring funds to Israel. Lyndon Johnson, the Senate Majority Leader told him, in so many words, "You can't do that." To which Eisenhower more or less said, "I've already done it." Yes, it could have been taken to Federal Court, but the boys in Tel Aviv understood how things worked, and quickly pulled their troops out of the Sinai.

The only other occasion on which an American president showed some spine in dealing with the Zionists of Israel was when Carter quietly told Begin he could come to Camp David, or he, Carter, would not disburse the funds Congress had appropriated for Israel. The result was the Camp David agreement, and for whatever one may say about that accord, Israel and Egypt have not gone to war since that time.

Politicians with some spine can make a big difference in international affairs.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 03:49 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
People didnt "hear" Ilhan Omar differently. They smeared her and bullied her into apologizing for speaking truth to power.

All those Dems in Congress who participated in smearing Ilhan today ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE AND NEVER WILL BE

Don't go black/white on this, edgar. It really ain't that simple. Vox has a good piece up on the matter.
Quote:
Omar’s tweet was a pretty clear example of the first kind of anti-Semitism. Plenty of Jews who are critical of the Israeli government, including me, found her comments offensive. It was false — support for Israel is complex and related to many more factors than just lobbyist money — and it played into centuries of conspiracy theories about Jewish money corrupting Western politics.

But it’s also clear that a lot of Omar’s critics don’t have much of a leg to stand on. Conservatives have been trying to label Omar an anti-Semite since she was elected in November, on the basis of fairly flimsy evidence. Rep. Kevin McCarthy, the Republican House minority leader, blasted her tweet despite having sent his own tweet accusing prominent Jewish Democrats of trying to “buy” the 2018 election. Trump once told a room full of Jewish Republicans that “you’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money,” adding that “you want to control your politicians, that’s fine.”

The fact that Omar apologized under pressure, and that Trump and McCarthy have never faced real consequences for their use of anti-Semitic tropes, tells you everything you need know about the politics of anti-Semitism in modern America.

This is not to minimize Omar’s offense: Her tweet was ignorant at best, and she was right to apologize. If we’re trying to understand anti-Semitism in American politics, though, we need to be clear-eyed about where all the problems are — and what’s being done to address them...
Vox
You likely won't find anything better to read on the overall picture than Mearsheimer and Walt's The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. Some of us wrote a lot on this paper (later a book) when it was published in 2005 or 2006. I guess it will be in archives here. At the very least, read wikipedia on the paper and events subsequent to publishing.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 03:57 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
You [Schumer] don't get to fearmonger to us about Russian money in US politics while taking Israeli money and answering to Israel's concerns over US concerns. All foreign money, all of it, out of US politics.

As I've said here before, the Israeli government, previously and presently, has and had far greater influence on US politics than does Russia. But Israel has never had a goal of weakening the US. They are dependent on US survival and strength. Russia is different.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 04:06 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
@edgarblythe,
I agree with you on this. I don't see it as attacking a religion, but as a powerful lobbying group which has an undue influence on the Israel/Palestine issue.
I gather your point here is that criticism of Israeli policy (or even their internal affairs) does not equal anti-Semitism. And of course that would be a rather stupid equation. The fundamental reason the idea has taken hold is a very effective propaganda campaign by Israeli governments, particularly the Likud party.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 04:09 pm
Quote:
Last October, after a crude mail bomb was found in George Soros’s mailbox, Representative Kevin McCarthy, the California Republican who is now the House minority leader, tweeted, “We cannot allow Soros, Steyer and Bloomberg to buy this election!” The tweet, since deleted, was referring to Tom Steyer and Michael Bloomberg, both of them, like Soros, Jews who are often the object of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Speaking on CNN, Steyer, who had also been sent a mail bomb, described McCarthy’s tweet as a “straight-up anti-Semitic move.”

So it was a bit rich when, last week, McCarthy posed as the indignant defender of the Jewish people, threatening to force congressional action against two freshman Democratic representatives, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, for their criticism of Israel.

(...)

In truth, while Aipac’s influence is extensive, no one needs to pay off conservatives to make them support Israel. Evangelicals, a far bigger constituency than American Jews, tend to be pro-Israel for religious reasons; some believe that the return of Jews to their biblical homeland is a precondition for the rapture and the Second Coming of Christ. Plenty of others on the right love Israel because it’s a nationalistic, pro-American power in the middle of the Middle East. You can’t blame Jewish money for Kevin McCarthy’s terrible politics.

Not long after Pelosi’s statement, Omar released one of her own, apologizing “unequivocally.” She wrote, “Anti-Semitism is real and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes.” Personally, I’m happy to accept her apology. Progressive American Muslims and Jews should be natural allies; our mutual future depends on deepening this country’s embattled commitment to multiethnic democracy. Prejudice helps bind the modern right together, but unchecked it can rip the left apart.

goldberg nyt
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 04:34 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
She wrote, “Anti-Semitism is real and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes.” Personally, I’m happy to accept her apology. Progressive American Muslims and Jews should be natural allies; our mutual future depends on deepening this country’s embattled commitment to multiethnic democracy. Prejudice helps bind the modern right together, but unchecked it can rip the left apart.

That is just lip service, and the author is an apologist for antisemitic garbage. And, of course, it is in the biggest tabloid in the world.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 04:58 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
The second reason is Israel's constant denial of their own crimes, and getting away with it since 1967.
Nonsense. Israel is not committing any crimes.

When antisemites (and yes, falsely accusing Jews of imaginary crimes is antisemitism) falsely accuse Israel of imaginary crimes, it is proper that the accusations be denied.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 05:00 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
I gather your point here is that criticism of Israeli policy (or even their internal affairs) does not equal anti-Semitism. And of course that would be a rather stupid equation.
Not when antisemites are trying to disguise their antisemitism by aiming their untrue accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews".

blatham wrote:
The fundamental reason the idea has taken hold is a very effective propaganda campaign by Israeli governments, particularly the Likud party.
The reason it takes hold is because people can see through such an obvious ploy.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 06:21 pm
Secular Talk
@KyleKulinski
·
4h
The Omar scandal proves it’s far too easy to manipulate the left with false cries of bigotry. Until the left grows a backbone and learns to call bullshit this will continue to be maliciously weaponized. Circle the wagons & keep it real instead of virtue signaling & appeasing.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 07:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
left with false cries of bigotry

They are not false cries, whoever that yahoo is you quoted has his/her head squarely up his/her ass.

Why perpetuates lies? What she said was bigoted and hateful.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 07:25 pm
@edgarblythe,
yup

the left picking on the left is a guaranteed death spiral

you'd think the left in the US would figure it out at some point
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 07:32 pm
@ehBeth,

Quote:
you'd think the left in the US would figure it out at some point

When do you think the Left in the rest of the world will?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 07:39 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
….. Representative Kevin McCarthy, the California Republican who is now the House minority leader, tweeted, “We cannot allow Soros, Steyer and Bloomberg to buy this election!” ...

Nonsense.

That's a real stretch for a charge of antisemitism. Soros, Steyer, and. to a lesser extent, Bloomberg are indeed dedicated major contributors to Democrat left wing causes. We certainly hear and read a lot about the "evil" Koch brothers from Democrats, both publicly and on these threads : is that proof positive of a right wing German American conspiracy? The active support this trio provides to left wing causes is rather obviously the cause of Republican criticism, just as is the corresponding activity of the Koch brothers the cause of Democrat reactions to them.

In view of the widespread Moslem intransigence towards Israel and Jews, as well as the equally widespread intolerance of non Moslems ("infidels") in largely Moslem countries, and the details of her recent statements, it appears much more likely that the only anti Semite here is the freshman Democrat Congresswoman from Minnesota, Ilhan Omar herself.

Judging from her remarks on the matter yesterday it appears that this view is also shared by Speaker Pelosi
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 07:56 pm
@Olivier5,
In general I agree with you.

However, I do believe that Moslems would be well advised to redirect their hostility to the European powers that colonized their world (chiefly Britain and France but Italy as well.), and particularly Britain & France which during and after WWI used them (with the promise of independence) to unseat the residue of Ottoman power, and then betrayed them with more colonization and the promise of a homeland for European Jews.

Initially the resulting Zionist movement towards Palestine was small but soon enough another European power, Nazi Germany, stepped in to make it a flood.
edgarblythe
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 08:47 pm
OurRev305 #RunBernieRun
@OurRev305
·
1h
Shutdown averted. Dems gave Trump $3B for border security (inc. 55 mile wall) + 40K detention beds. Dems negotiated citizenship for DACA & TPS residents. KIDDING! Dems negotiated for nothing. Not even to keep 21 Savage in the ATL. #PleaseClap
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 09:46 pm
@edgarblythe,
nope

Quote:
The accord, struck late on Monday, contains US$1.375-billion – enough to build about 90 kilometres of wall along the border with Mexico – far short of the US$5.7-billion Mr. Trump had demanded. It is also less than the US$1.6-billion congressional leaders floated in a December deal the President rejected, triggering a 35-day government shutdown followed by two weeks of tense negotiations.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-border-wall-funding-further-slashed-in-latest-us-spending-plan/

Quote:
On the campaign trail in 2016, Mr. Trump promised to build a wall between 1,600 and 3,200 kilometres long – and paid for by Mexico. After more than two years in office, he has only secured funding to build about 125 kilometres, three-quarters of which would replace existing fencing. The bill is being footed by U.S. taxpayers.



Quote:
the right-wing pundits most aligned with Mr. Trump’s agenda slammed the deal and, in some cases, mocked the President for even considering it.

“Trump talks a good game on the border wall but it’s increasingly clear he’s afraid to fight for it. Call this his ‘Yellow New Deal,’” Ann Coulter tweeted.

Fox News host Sean Hannity gave a look of disgust as he read out the US$1.3-billion figure on the air on Monday.

“Any Republican that supports this garbage compromise, you will have to explain,” he said.



Quote:
The deal also contains funding for immigration detention beds that would hold roughly 45,000 people every day – a bid by Democrats to reduce the number of people being detained from the current 49,000.



0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2019 09:49 pm
https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51904327_2083017901778410_921657775077982208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeFZoz6zX10JmiOfcjZ1iXn15JuUFDXG2uHv7wjupyXC-5IcYhZYaiJhJPDhwuUGlP1GRP2XwDsmit_BfrDD14Nn-ErCNsOhM9ulVrwX1s9lwQ&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=07a1686ddf0226970888fc83833183e9&oe=5CE7DDA2
0 Replies
 
 

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