revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 08:49 am
@georgeob1,
Well of course charter schools are quickly filled up by students who go to a school in a so called "failing school." The problem is that Charter school takes money from public schools and not every student can go to a Charter school. It makes a lot more sense to fix the failing public school and keep the money in the public school where a majority of the students have to still attend. If Charter schools want to take in students in poorer environments, let them, just do it without tax dollars.

I am with the "progressives" on this one.

Why Charter Schools Are Losing Support from Democrats
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 09:05 am
Earlier, we were talking about Ocasio-Cortez and her unusual political gifts. Here's what some right wing Republicans think:
Quote:
“I aspire to be the conservative AOC,” Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) told POLITICO. Gaetz, an outspoken 36-year-old in his second term who has achieved a measure of prominence as a highly isible Trump defender, said there’s just one problem with that aspiration: “I can’t dance for ****.”

"AOC has what I call 'gameness' or competitive heart — the combination of grit, determination, fighting spirit that you can't coach,” Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief strategist, told POLITICO. “You either have it or you don't, and she has it big league."

..."I think her policies and everything are a disaster but I just look at her effectiveness,” [Mike] Cernovich said, praising her as an exemplar of the 19th-century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche's concept of will to power. “No one's more effective than her right now."

...Meanwhile, Ann Coulter, another early Trump believer, has become privately preoccupied with Ocasio-Cortez’s ability to command mass attention, according to a person close to the conservative commentator.

"Terrified is a good word," said the person. "She's terrified of her.” The person recounted a recent conversation with Coulter in which, "She was ranting about, ‘AOC's going to be the next president even if she's not old enough to run.’” Coulter did not respond to emails requesting comment.

She has also been the subject of a barrage of critical coverage in conservative media portraying her positions as outlandish, her public statements as fact-challenged and her working-class biography as embellished, among other critiques.

Coverage of the congresswoman on Fox News has become so frequent that she poked fun at the network in a tweet, quoting Spanish-language lyrics from New York band Aventura to suggest Fox has an “obsession” with her.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/30/aoc-congress-republicans-1134065
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 09:12 am
@blatham,
I really hope she’s able to get younger people out to vote. Their turnout was dismal in 2018 (yet again).

If she gets nothing else on her list done but that, it will be enough.
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 10:32 am
@blatham,
When I read the book, 'Fire and Fury' one of the thoughts I came away with was though Steve Bannon is despicable, he seemed smarter than all the rest of them though he carries himself like a drunk acholic out on a binge. I agree with him on his description of Ocasio-Cortez.

I really don't agree with her every policy she puts forth, I think completely doing away with ICE is unnecessary although I think it needs to be radically reformed. I don't agree with completely free universal college education because there are just some students who can pay for it without any sweat. However I do think it should be income/hardship based and I don't think students should have to pay it back. Now that Obamacare is almost gutted, I am not against UHC, but before Trump mine under Obamacare was working fine and I am only starting to notice some negative changes.

Personally I don't get it, she seem fine too me, but maybe I just don't get the craze factor with her. If I was in her district, I might have voted for her although there was nothing at all wrong with the person she replaced, he was very liberal.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 05:43 pm
I mean, you have your own take-away.

1. For me, the primary intended audience is black voters who are still dazzled by the sight of a black person in the oval, and may feel compelled by something other than well-considered self-interest to vote for them/him/her.

2. Drop the pretense of ‘party’ because that subterfuge is designed to keep the people divided while their robbery is in continual progress by elected elites.

I loved his reasons, evidence, details.

Proposal: don’t get fooled again.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 08:10 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
It appears you are saying that resistance to the prejudgments of others based on superficial observations, (i.e. black, Jewish, Catholic, etc. ) requires the "pushback" of equivalent counter prejudgments against the supposed perpetrators.
No. A simple point here:
where a group has been oppressed or denied equal rights by the dominant group/culture (eg blacks, chinese, women, gays, jews, etc) that oppressed group will have to wage campaigns critical of the existing system and forward policies/laws to gain the rights denied. This is what marks any civil rights movement, obviously.

The cultural isolation and marginalization of the individuals in such groups is not a consequence of anything they've done. It is a consequence of the dominant culture's oppression - a consequence of that dominant culture's identification of blacks or women as a group which is generally inferior and undeserving of equal rights. "You aren't like us. We won't let you gain access to the rights and privileges that we - definitely not you - deserve to maintain for ourselves".

It was and is "identity politics" of the dominant culture that identified these groups/individuals as different, as lesser and as undeserving. Attempts to portray those groups/individuals as guilty of acting inappropriately when they strive to alter the system which differentiates and identifies them is to continue the oppression - "How dare they do what is our singular right"

Re things here... fine, other than as a 70 year old, the sound of bodies dropping all around is getting a bit noisy.

blatham
 
  4  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 08:19 pm
@Lash,
Are you really going to spread this Dems are no different from Republicans again? Who would have guessed.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 08:25 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
I really hope she’s able to get younger people out to vote. Their turnout was dismal in 2018 (yet again).
The youth vote was up but we'd like to see it higher, of course.

Yes, I think AOC will very definitely inspire young folks to become active. Perhaps particularly young females but I suspect it will be much more expansive than that. Again, just attend to the audience response when she walked on Colbert's stage.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 08:33 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
I really don't agree with her every policy
I doubt there's any politician I would agree with on all their stated policies.

But as I've suggested, there's reason for right wing figures to attack her as they've been doing. No other incoming Dem has received 1/20th of the black propaganda aimed at her. They are very scared of her. That tells us a lot.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 08:53 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

... The cultural isolation and marginalization of the individuals in such groups is not a consequence of anything they've done. It is a consequence of the dominant culture's oppression - a consequence of that dominant culture's identification of blacks or women as a group which is generally inferior and undeserving of equal rights. "You aren't like us. We won't let you gain access to the rights and privileges that we - definitely not you - deserve to maintain for ourselves".

It was and is "identity politics" of the dominant culture that identified these groups/individuals as different, as lesser and as undeserving. Attempts to portray those groups/individuals as guilty of acting inappropriately when they strive to alter the system which differentiates and identifies them is to continue the oppression - "How dare they do what is our singular right"

Re things here... fine, other than as a 70 year old, the sound of bodies dropping all around is getting a bit noisy.

Nice clear, compact encapsulation of your proposition. However, my central point remains --- an additional application of the same poison is not a remedy. In particular, government sponsored identity politics or rules offered as a remedy is no remedy at all -- as the last several decades have very amply demonstrated in the case of African Americans. Such actions on the part of government legitimize the harmful behavior that created the problem in the first place. Moreover often create resentments that significantly slow the recovery, and in addition often have negative side effects that directly and adversely affect the injured group.

You referred to old prejudices that affected immigrants and Catholics. Initially these group affiliations were obvious and easy to see. However over time the external signs faded and, as the assimilation progressed - in the complete absence of any government sponsored "corrective" group action. As the assimilation progressed in a manner I described in an earlier post the identification and the prejudices based on them faded.

African Americans have a detectable identity that won't fade so easily - although as intermarriage continues that occurs as well. In addition African Americans suffered prolonged injury as slavery and Jim Crow stopped the clock on any natural process and even their own efforts to rise up. That is over now, and what is needed is mutual tolerance, acceptance and respect. The problem of intolerance resides in the hearts of the people involved and a "cure" that doesn't address that is no cure at all. Now that the former legal and cultural barriers have been eliminated or punctured, the process is indeed continuing apace, however few of the many individual successes (and it is all about individuals) are noted in the media or public discourse about it.

I hear you about the dropping bodies. That's about all I see in both the USNA and Cal Teck alumni sheets. However we press on, both of us are active and internally driven - that helps a lot.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 09:07 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
I really hope she’s able to get younger people out to vote. Their turnout was dismal in 2018 (yet again).
The youth vote was up but we'd like to see it higher, of course.

Yes, I think AOC will very definitely inspire young folks to become active. Perhaps particularly young females but I suspect it will be much more expansive than that. Again, just attend to the audience response when she walked on Colbert's stage.


I think it was up to 18% from 16% IIRC.

Eighteen percent. Eighteen. 1. 8.

Pathetic, given the circumstances.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 09:53 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
African Americans have a detectable identity that won't fade so easily - although as intermarriage continues that occurs as well.
Are you sure you want to leave this sentence up for all to see?

Notice which culture you have "fading".
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 09:56 pm
@maporsche,
Sure. I'd be more than happy to see compulsory voting. Perhaps something like Australia.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 11:26 pm
Jared Saunders‎ to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Progressives
4 hrs ·
Be sure to register as a Democrat if plan on voting for Bernie in 2020 if you live in a closed primary state or partially closed or partially open state. Here is a link that shows what states you have to be a registered Dem if you want your vote to count. Please share to let our younger voters and new voters know what’s up! http://www.ncsl.org/…/elections-and-camp…/primary-types.aspx
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 07:44 am
@edgarblythe,
Good advice even if you're voting for another Dem candidate.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 10:14 am
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/427834-sanders-offers-bill-to-expand-the-estate-tax
Sanders rolls out bill to expand the estate tax

Quote:
Sanders's bill would lower the exemption amount for the estate tax and also create a progressive rate structure. The rate would be 45 percent for the value of an estate between $3.5-10 million, 50 percent for the value of an estate between $10-50 million, 55 percent on the value of an estate between $50 million and $1 billion, and 77 percent on the value of an estate that exceeds $1 billion.

Sanders's office said in a summary of the bill that the top estate tax rate had previously been 77 percent from 1941 to 1976.





*******************************************

My initial take is that I like this bill. I'm not sure it will raise much money for the treasury but I think the policy is fine and the optics are great.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 10:18 am
@blatham,
I agree with the writer and most progressives about that. If you’d hazard a read of something outside your bubble safety zone, it wouldn’t be such a shock to see a progressive take this stance.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 10:49 am
@blatham,
It's simply a statement of fact : I haven't put anything anywhere. Moreover I didn't identify any culture as fading - rather the distinctive identifiers which enabled narrow minded intolerant people to identify them. I suspect you misread my statement, but thanks for the alert.

After they lost their distinctive accents Irish, Italian & Polish Catholics weren't so easily identifiable to those still filled with prejudice against them. That gave them an advantage in the assimilation process over African Americans. For both however, the problem consisted of the prejudicial fixed group ideas in those who were intolerant of them.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 11:47 am
Rock and Hard Place Dept:

Winkle the BernieBro🌹(soon to be Sandynista?...)
@the_bernie_bro
·
1h
I'm starting to lose hope for 2020

Establishment Dems will not allow an anti-corporatist to win the nom

If a corporatist Dem beats Trump, we'll just be right back to where only bandaid policies are enacted and crises in society only get worse

If Trump wins, well, its Trump
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 12:13 pm
@edgarblythe,
Winkle the BernieBro wrote:
Establishment Dems will not allow an anti-corporatist to win the nom

Well, with a dozen self-described "progressives" all splitting the vote that could be the upshot. Maybe some of these egotists will see the light early and drop out. But really, progressives have been talking up how popular the Sanders message is so there's really no way establishment Dems can "not allow" an anti-corporatist to win. Progressives just need to settle on one candidate to back and win a majority of delegates.

Quote:
If a corporatist Dem beats Trump, we'll just be right back to where only bandaid policies are enacted and crises in society only get worse

Not necessarily. If the candidate is elected with a big majority in Congress there will surely be loads of progressives in the ranks and they can work to advance anti-corporatist legislation. A liberal congress can push an establishment president to the left.
 

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