maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 12:46 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I agree there are indeed many remaining forms of prejudice and discrimination afoot in the world, and that affecting African Americans is indeed a serious problem that touches us all.


Maybe you mentioned it earlier and I missed it, but what do you propose to be done instead of AA?
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 12:48 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
The trouble is that there are a lot of people who emphatically do judge others by the color of their skin.

And if there are, are they actively holding anyone back or insulting them in public? I do not see that, I just hear moaning about it. What makes you think that someone is not going think they way the wish because you do not like it?

If these people observe our laws they are free to hold any opinion they want and moaning and laws(least of all laws), will not stop it. The constant exposure in the media is to divide people not encourage civility and respect for the individual of any color by any means. You know as well as I do, anyone has a chance here. Why do you want to change that?
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 12:56 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
And if there are, are they actively holding anyone back or insulting them in public?

It happens.
Quote:
If these people observe our laws they are free to hold any opinion they want and moaning and laws(least of all laws), will stop it.

The problems arise when they don't observe our laws.
Quote:
You know as well as I do, anyone has a chance here.

I know that some people's chances are significantly less than other people's.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 12:57 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
The problems arise when they don't observe our laws.

How and who?
Quote:
I know that some people's chances are significantly less than other people's.

Since when did that really stop anyone if they wanted it bad enough?
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:06 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I agree there are indeed many remaining forms of prejudice and discrimination afoot in the world, and that affecting African Americans is indeed a serious problem that touches us all.


Maybe you mentioned it earlier and I missed it, but what do you propose to be done instead of AA?


That was a bit patronizing. Did you enjoy the moment?

Jason Reilly's prescription was "Please stop helping us", and I believe he is right. It would be very interesting to examine various AA programs to identify just what contributions they have actually made to reducing racial conflict or prejudices. The usual response is that any improvements achieved by Blacks must necessarily be a result of AA. I believe the converse is true. Beyond opening statutory or cultural doors limiting them, the vast majority of the improvements in the state of African Americans has been the result of the hard work and initiatives of individuals among them. Misguided welfare programs have contributed substantially to the disintegration of Black families, and your expressed view that AA is a necessary remedy for improving the situation of Blacks is both patronizing to them and a precursor to the continuation of the prejudices behind the problem.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:11 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

That was a bit patronizing. Did you enjoy the moment?


It was not meant to sound that way. Not at all.

Nor did I enjoy the moment. It was merely a question that I didn't know your answer to.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:14 pm
@georgeob1,
Just to be clear though, you (and Jason Reilly) think we should remove AA programs entirely or are there some that he/you think are worth keeping in place?

"Please stop helping us" sounds like all these programs should just stop and groups who are able to use AA should simply be left to compete with everyone else despite any current disadvantages in education and in wealth that DO currently exist (I think you've agreed they do exist).
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:28 pm
@maporsche,
Thank you for that. I apologize for my retort.

Some more thoughts about AA : In our public schools the notion that any statistical disparity is necessarily proof positive that wrongful discrimination is the cause, has become the operating rule. Results have included the dumbing down of school curricula; the inflation of grades and evaluations and exemptions from often needed disciplinary actions affecting students who happen to be black.

In what way has this benefitted the education and motivation of black students seeking to improve their situations?
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:29 pm
@coldjoint,
There's no law which prohibits anyone from holding any opinion they wish. Hell, my opinion of Islam isn't all that different from yours. If someone holds strong prejudices against, say, white anglo-saxon protestants it's perfectly okay to think that way. But it's not okay for a restaurant to refuse table service to a family of W.A.S.P.s because the manager hates the class of people they represent. Now this doesn't happen too much to white people. But it happens with depressing frequency to dark-skinned people so we have laws to prevent that sort of discrimination.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:33 pm
@georgeob1,
Is it known that those changes to school curricula, etc are limited to AA classes of students?

I was under the impression that these changes have affected white and Hispanic children as well.

If it is limited to Black students, then no, I don't think it would help to improve their situation, but I'd defer to education experts who understand why or how these decisions may impact the students. Or at least, I'd want to hear from them as to why these decisions are made.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:50 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
There's no law which prohibits anyone from holding any opinion they wish.

That seems to be what you want.
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:53 pm
@maporsche,
I believe the various policies I referred to affect all students, though some indirectly. Their main effect is to reduce student motivation and accountability for what they do and don't do. My experience suggests to me that these are not the characteristics of effective educational institutions: indeed the contrary is the rule for them.

In the case I addressed, the AA appears to be merely intended to obscure only the manifestations of the underlying problem, and in fact only worsen the underlying issues. There's lots of statistical data out there on the performance of public schools for minority children and for the significant relative benefits of charter schools for them. Certainly the quick filling of their available seats suggests that many Black parents believe this as well.

In all of this AA creates side effects that dilute their primary intended benefits and sometimes even destroy the institutions and motivations that should lead the solutions.

I don't put much trust in the "educational experts" to whom you may have been referring. These institutions increasingly appear to be going through a down period - from Public schools to Ivy League.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 01:55 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
That seems to be what you want.


Where did I indicate that thought control was desirable? My point was that a person can hold unpopular, controversial, or outright wrong beliefs and as long as they aren't acted out there's really no issue.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 02:01 pm
@georgeob1,
I'm not wholly-opposed to charter schools, although I don't necessarily view them as the answer to problems in public schools.

I think any parent of a child who cares enough about their education to place them in a charter school, is probably the type of parent who would force them to do their homework and the type of parent who enforces things like curfew and other 'normal' disciplines. Children with those types of parent often perform better for that reason. Involved parents have a significant impact on student performance.

I don't see the connection as to how AA ruins that or has a negative effect on education. AA doesn't apply to K-12 education from what I understand.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 02:27 pm
@maporsche,
I don't know. President Obama issued instructions to public schools indicating that any statistical disparities in punishment rates or grade averages would be considered as prima facie evidence of unlawful discrimination.

Even if parental involvement turns out to be the chief reason that black children do better in charter schools, we should continue to reward that behavior - it can lead to a self-reinforcing virtuous cycle. The alternative is to reward harmful behavior, and that is truly irrational.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 02:43 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Where did I indicate that thought control was desirable?

You do not need to when your posts clearly represent the people that do.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 05:28 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

revelette1 wrote:
They are a movement and their movement succeeding seems to be their goal.


At the expense of the country, it seems.

It's often said that those in privileged positions (such as already being on Medicare or having a long term unionized job) can make those principled stances because their position in life won't be affected by the negative consequences of those decisions.


This would be hilarious if it weren’t so tragically ironic.
I’m as zealous as I am about Bernie Sanders and/or his core policies being enacted because people like YOU are insulated from the death and ruin of families who can’t afford healthcare, or are incarcerated primarily due to blatant institutional racism in the prison system.

YOU are the privileged, detached one riding in his Porsche, never calculating a child’s visit to the doctor against rent or groceries.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 03:05 am
The likely Bernie Sanders campaign for president offers a boost and a challenge to progressives. From the outset, the campaign’s strength would largely depend on how much synergy develops with social movements on the ground. Much more than the presidency is at stake. A powerful mix of grassroots activism and electoral work could transform the country’s political landscape.

A 2020 Sanders campaign would mostly pick up where it left off in 2016. Contrary to widespread media spin, the fact that Bernie would be facing dozens of contenders for the Democratic nomination this time doesn’t change the reality of his unique approach to economic power relations. Whether it’s called democratic socialism, progressive populism or something else, that approach sets him apart from the other candidates, even including Elizabeth Warren.

Sanders has been willing and able to use a national stage for public education and agitation about inherently anti-democratic and destructive aspects of corporate capitalism. That explains why, in political and media realms, so many knives are again being sharpened against him.

Attacks on Sanders have come from many directions, but they largely spring from his detractors’ zeal to defend corporate power as a driving force that propels and steers the US government as well as the Democratic Party. Efforts to undermine the Sanders 2020 primary campaign would span from mainstream media to liberal and centrist forces aligned with competitors for the Democratic nomination.

More than any other presidential candidate, Sanders has ready access to extensive networks of authentic grassroots support. Unlike many, his campaign budget won’t need a line item for Astroturf.

Much more at this awesome site: https://truthout.org/articles/bernies-likely-2020-bid-could-transform-the-political-landscape/

Bernie speaks for people desperate for change in the US.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 05:04 am
Blistering indictment of Kamala and other bourgeoisie Democrats.
https://ghionjournal.com/observations-malcolm-x/
———————————

Growing up, one of my biggest heroes and the person I wanted to emulate when I got older was Malcolm X. This was during my time of militancy and youthful rebellion, when I thought the only way to arrive at justice was through a revolution. The insurgent within me was captivated by Malcolm X’s take no prisoner approach and the way he spoke harsh truths to the status quo.

It was not until I matured and learned through hardship and indigence that I realized Malcolm X’s power was not his fiery rhetoric but his unifying message after returning from Mecca. However, as much as I’ve become an admirer of El Hajj Malik El Shabazz’s latter days, there are still aspects of his earlier reflections that ring true given the times we live in.

What I’m referring to are not his blistering speeches where he would call “white” people devils or his addresses where he echoed the teachings of Elijah Muhammad—Malcolm X himself walked away from that type of demagoguery. Rather, what intrigued me the most was when his dissection of the political and social dynamics that kept “black” folks subjugated.

To this day, one of the most compelling arguments that Malcolm X made about the evils of both political parties is found in a speech he gave about the political and economic state of “black” America. He brilliantly exposed the false-distinction between Democrats and Republicans as a choice between the lesser of the same evil.

“Foxes and wolves usually are of the same breed. They belong to the same family—I think it’s called canine. And the difference is that the wolf when he shows you his teeth, you know that he’s your enemy; and the fox, when he shows you his teeth, he appears to be smiling. But no matter which of them you go with, you end up in the dog house.”

It took a mean mugging by reality—one that shook me out of cognitive dissonance—for me to realize that Democrats are no different than Republicans. They differ in their methods, but in the end they feast on us regardless of their gang affiliation. Both parties are subsidiaries of corporations and oligarchs; our entire political system is based on two factions bamboozling their respective bases while manufacturing dissension on all sides.

Now that I’ve shed my political blinders, I see how this game is played. I’ll be honest here and admit that Democrats irritate me more than Republicans for this one simple reason. I’ve come to expect Republicans to be malicious—there is honesty in their advertisement. However, it’s the Democrats who smile like foxes as they pretend to be our allies only to stab us in our backs the minute they get elected. They have maintained power for decades by successfully treading on the pains of marginalized groups as they concurrently enact legislation and regulations that inflame the very injustices they rail against.

If there is one group that has been leveraged the most by Democrats, it’s the descendants of slaves and “black” diaspora as a whole. For generations, supposed liberals—who now call themselves progressives—have cunningly used the pains of “African-Americans” to further their own agendas. The Democrat’s most loyal voting bloc have time and time again been taken advantage of only to be tossed to the side as soon as Democrats gain power. They talk a good game and pretend to be for us right up until election day, soon as the last ballot is counted, they are nowhere to be found.

More than 90% of African-Americans vote for Democrats on a consistent basis, for our loyalty what we get is lip service paired with malicious policies.
It’s on this front that another observation by Malcolm X comes into clear focus. One of the things that really grabbed my attention while I was reading his autobiography is the way Malcolm described the dynamic between the impoverished masses and the black bourgeoisie during the Civil Rights Era.

“There are two types of Negroes in this country. There’s the bourgeois type who blinds himself to the condition of his people, and who is satisfied with token solutions. He’s in the minority. He’s a handful. He’s usually the hand-picked Negro who benefits from token integration. But [it’s the] masses of Black people who really suffer the brunt of brutality and the conditions that exist in this country.”

What Malcolm X was describing was the class hierarchy within the construct of race. He railed against the select few “negroes” who willingly stepped on their own people in order to advance their own selfish ambitions. Malcolm X was against integration for this reason; he realized that a modification of a racist system that benefits a fraction of society while keeping the majority repressed was morally bankrupt. This same realization eventually dawned on Martin Luther King Jr when he confided to his closest advisers that he might have “integrated his people into a burning house.”

Fast forward fifty years and it’s evident that the bourgeoisie “negroes” who Malcolm X talked about have been unleashed by the establishment to work against the interests of their people. As the majority of “African-Americans” suffer economic inequalities and are burdened by financial uncertainties, black politicians, pundits and so-called “activists” are enriching themselves while they pretend to be fighting injustice.

Forget Plymouth Rock, the biggest hoodwink of them all that landed on us was a boulder named Barack. After losing a Congressional primary to Bobby Rush in 2000, Obama’s inner circle realized that he was not embraced by “African-Americans” in Chicago because many did not see him as one of them. He quickly adapted and learned the art of duplicity; Obama perfected his ability to talk eloquently about our issues and suffering as a means to an end. The end was his unabated ego. After he scaled the heights of politics, he ended up enacting policies that exacerbated the wealth gap. For his brazen act of betrayal, Obama was rewarded handsomely.

Barack Obama was not an outlier but the norm when it comes to the tokens who are paraded by Democrats to represent faux-progress and counterfeit diversity. Kamala Harris is the next black bourgeoisie in line who is hoping to use the plight of African-Americans and the tribulations of “black” folk to win the White House. After spending a career locking up brown and “black” folk with impunity and resurrecting the ugly legacy of penal slavery, she is now shamelessly pretending to be the next coming of Sojourner Truth—hers is the audacity of trope.

Kamala Harris is following in the path of Obama, offer platitudes lacking substance only to serve her Wall Street masters in the end.
Given the fact that too many are conditioned to think in binary fashion, I must take a pause here to clarify one thing. This is in no way to excuse the pernicious nature of Republicans and the vile racism of Donald Trump. After all, not only are Republicans insidious when it comes to the way they treat “African-Americans” and minorities as a whole, the party of Trump uses the same playbook of feigned concern to dupe their respective side. However, the more I observe the rank opportunism of the Democrat front-runners, the more I appreciate the sagacity of Malcolm X.

It’s not only politicians like Barack Obama and Kamala Harris who traffic in this most insincere form of paternalism, there is a whole cottage industry of black opinion leaders and gate-keepers who actively work against our interests while passively speaking against injustice. They abound on TV, in the press and throughout social media; the surest way to make a name for oneself is to be a part of the “woke” intelligentsia who lull their people into collective comas.

Adding insult to injury is the fact that these same bourgeoisie mouthpieces are not only using the pains of the oppressed to advance themselves, they are now employing the injuries of the masses to deflect well-deserved criticism. Identity has been weaponized, instead of addressing the structural nature of racism and sexism, folks like Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton and identity politics shysters across the political spectrum are turning the victims of systematic oppression into human shields to intimidate anyone who dares to question their record. Enough is enough!

My reference to Democrats and Republicans should not be seen as a condemnation of folks who vote for them, I’m limiting my condemnation to elected officials, people who sway public opinions and principals who sit at policy tables.

There is a broader problem beyond these two-faced grifters. The truth is that the “black” community has become bifurcated; the bourgeoisie class feeling the blessings of capitalism and enterprise while the vast majority are burdened by consumerism and debt. DuBois once talked about the “talented tenth”, an educated sector of blacks leading the bottom 90% out of bondage. Sadly, the talented tenth has been convinced to seek self-enrichment and forget about collective wellness.

What is true of “African-Americans” is true of society as a whole. In this richest nation, there exists a breathtaking chasm between the few who have much and the many who have little. Keeping this dynamic in place is a pyramid scheme that transfers wealth upward being kept by the greed of politicians and the indifference of the proletariat. We are being swindled by hustlers to keep this most depraved system intact.

I don’t expect leaders to be perfect, very few of us are guilt free when it comes to the iniquities of the status quo. We all have have our battles as we vacillate between our better angels and the allure of our desires. All we can do in life is seek to do better; after all, Malcolm X’s very narrative is one of mistakes followed by atonement. My aim is not to be pious nor pretend purity from people, I have way too many planks in my eyes to demand others act blameless. However, there is a vast difference between those who perpetrate infringements by commission versus the rest of us who transgress through omission.

I would be the first person to applaud Harris, Obama, Trump or any politician who sincerely admit their mistakes and try to make amends. Far from doing so, these con artists pretend to do the right thing as they pour fuel on the fire. There is a reason why hypocrisy is the most egregious sin; it’s hard to be forgiven when the offender is lying about his penance.

Malcolm X is painted by many in mainstream media and academia as a firebrand who preached from the pulpit of exclusion. But those who know his history understand very well that who he was when his journey concluded was vastly different than the caricature of Malcolm X that is presented by the institutions of power he spoke against. It never fails, first kill the messengers then co-opt their message. The truth is that he changed his approach, disavowed divisive rhetoric and embraced inclusive justice.

“I’m for truth, no matter who tells it. I’m for justice, no matter who it’s for or against.”

These were the words uttered by Malcolm X as he spoke against the system of inequality that shackles billions around our planet into lives of servitude and bondage. His decision to pivot from friction and instead seek the light of universal justice is the reason why he was silenced, the status quo rewards charlatans but has a way of killing off unifying voices.

On this front, the status quo has succeeded beyond its wildest imagination. We are now being led by a procession of overseers who pretend to be Moses. This hustle will not work too much longer however, more and more people are waking up to their deception and refusing to be doormats of Democrats, Republicans or anyone else. If we are to find redemption, it will not be from the top nor will the revolution be televised.

As I noted earlier, I’ve come a long way from my days of would-be revolutionary. Malcolm X had an eye-awakening moment in Mecca upon seeing a broad sea of humanity praying in unison. I had my mecca moment by way of shelters and homeless missions and observing a diverse dissection of Americans made invisible by the malice of the gentry and the indifference of society. It’s for this reason that I disavow sectional movements and pray for a day where all of us unite beyond our trivial differences. We have more that unites us than the issues that divide us; when we realize this is the day we will get the change we all have been waiting for. The revolution that matters is not the one of the gun but the one our hearts.

By the way, if you want to know why I keep using quote marks around the words black, white, African-American and the litany of labels that have been imposed on us, it’s because I understand very well the power of words. This video above that I put together about the brands we accept is one that will never be discussed by the black “leaders” who pretend to speak for us.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2019 06:43 am
@Lash,
Obana and co are easy targets for the "oreo argument" but what does the author propose, practically speaking?
0 Replies
 
 

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