maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 12:32 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
If a corporatist Dem beats Trump, we'll just be right back to where only bandaid policies are enacted and crises in society only get worse

Not necessarily. If the candidate is elected with a big majority in Congress there will surely be loads of progressives in the ranks and they can work to advance anti-corporatist legislation. A liberal congress can push an establishment president to the left.


This cannot be said enough.

I'd rather have 50 "corporate Dems" and 10 Bernie Sanders in the Senate than 49 Bernie Sanders....they'd get a lot more done.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 12:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I didn't identify any culture as fading
You'll have to forgive me for thinking you identified black culture as fading (a positive outcome) when you said black culture was fading. But I'll take your word you didn't mean quite that. Still, you use the term "assimilation" in this last post.

I'm not sure what percentage of african americans are adherents of christianity but it must be somewhere around 70% or more. I'm not bothered by this (aside from everything Chris Hitchens had to say about religion).

But (thought experiment here) what if it were the other way around and 70% of white americans had become adherents of voodoo, most christians having been assimilated into that culture?
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 01:00 pm
There's a really good piece up at the Post on the historical levels of tax rates.

https://chartable-images.edapps.nile.works/chartable/5c52172a4f381a00106f8d9a/latest.svg?v=1548892799.656242

Quote:
The Bottom Line
The United States today ranks 39th in the world in terms of the top marginal tax rate but marginal tax rates such as 70 percent largely are a thing of the past. The top rate in Britain is now 45 percent. Even Sweden and Denmark have rates of 56 percent and 57 percent, respectively.

In other words, in today’s context, Ocasio-Cortez’s rate of 70 percent would appear outside the norm. But in historical context, it would not be out of line at all. It would be Back to the Future.
LINK
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 01:09 pm
@blatham,
I believe the overwhelming weight of evidence points to the fact that the process of assimilation here (and likely in Canada too) involved the gradual adoption of elements from the varying cultures of all immigrant groups into an evermore cosmopolitan culture representing a synthesis of all its constituents. Core elements of the individual constituent cultures last a long time, and as long as there is mutual tolerance of these things, and a prevailing recognition of the facts that (1) we all share a common human nature , and that (2) judgments of others, when they must be made, should be based on the content of their characters as MLK aptly put it -- then we will all be OK.

I do worry a bit about Calgary however. It has what must be the world's largest concentration of pissed off Hindi taxi drivers.

Interestingly the nuns in Catholic school told us that there were indeed some very strange things going on in the culture of other white Americans, but that we were a much needed source of a common remedy.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 03:16 pm
Quote:
Progressive Life: Kill’em In The Womb, Or Let Measles Take The Children

Quote:
We are all outraged about what Virginia Gov. (Dr.) Northam said about letting a single doctor and a recalcitrant mom-to-be decide to execute her baby up to the point where the first cry is heard (or muffled by scissors to the brain stem). But Oregon has, since 1969, been the “gold standard” in baby-killing for profit. In fact, the only laws the state that’s home to the least religious city in the U.S. (Portland) have passed regarding abortion is to make it more accessible, and to force insurers to pay for it.

There’s also another thing the largely-godless, progressive northwest has given us besides lots of abortions, homeless people, closed restaurants making more people jobless and homeless, income inequality caused by punishing corporate taxes, and all the wonderful benefits of Progressive Life.

Ghouls.
https://theresurgent.com/2019/01/31/progressive-life-killem-in-the-womb-or-let-measles-take-the-children/?utm_source=Insightly&utm_campaign=4166343c17-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_31_12_25&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_198a5324d1-4166343c17-270033741&mc_cid=4166343c17&mc_eid=d50591c3d3
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 03:19 pm
@coldjoint,
The two people who I know for sure are anti-vaxxers are also Trump supporters.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 03:22 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
The two people who I know for sure are anti-vaxxers are also Trump supporters.

Does that change the policies advocated by Progressives?
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 03:23 pm
@coldjoint,
You mean policies like mandatory vaccinations?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 03:35 pm
Hmmmm...looks like it's mostly red states who have "philosophical" as an option to not vaccinate.

https://www.nvic.org/vaccine-laws/state-vaccine-requirements.aspx
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2019 03:37 pm
Quote:
You mean policies like mandatory vaccinations?

Apparently, those are not progressive policies, so why would you ask? That kind of response only adds to confusion and addresses 0. Is killing other peoples children, or your own, somehow liberating?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 04:29 am
Trump wins 2020 election!

...will be the headline if establishment Dems continue on this mindless Hillary 2.0 path with Kamala Harris.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 08:22 am
@Lash,
Sorry, I haven't been following much: do you think "establishment Dems" support Harris too much or too little?
Brand X
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 08:25 am
Cory Booker just jumped in, no shock there.
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 11:30 am
@georgeob1,
(I up-voted your post. It was down in the -2 range and I was concerned that you might be feeling marginalized and lonely. Besides that, it's a fine post*)
Quote:
I believe the overwhelming weight of evidence points to the fact that the process of assimilation here (and likely in Canada too) involved the gradual adoption of elements from the varying cultures of all immigrant groups into an evermore cosmopolitan culture representing a synthesis of all its constituents. Core elements of the individual constituent cultures last a long time, and as long as there is mutual tolerance of these things, and a prevailing recognition of the facts that (1) we all share a common human nature , and that (2) judgments of others, when they must be made, should be based on the content of their characters as MLK aptly put it -- then we will all be OK.

(* by "fine post" we mean it is fashioned perfectly well and probably couldn't be improved upon even if written by your two obvious inspirations, Louie Gohmert and Pollyanna).

Quote:
I do worry a bit about Calgary however. It has what must be the world's largest concentration of pissed off Hindi taxi drivers.

Who the hell wouldn't be pissed off, living in that place. By way of contrast, in NYC the Hindi taxi drivers are pleasant and accommodating and they would give you the shirt off their backs if it was needed and if you like plaids.

Quote:
Interestingly the nuns in Catholic school told us that there were indeed some very strange things going on in the culture of other white Americans, but that we were a much needed source of a common remedy.

Yes, I'm sure. Internet usage stats show that American nuns' most frequently used search term is "Baptist threesomes".




0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 11:42 am
@Brand X,
Quote:
Cory Booker just jumped in, no shock there.

Spartacus was born in Thrace.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 11:53 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Trump wins 2020 election!

...will be the headline if establishment Dems continue on this mindless Hillary 2.0 path with Kamala Harris.

This is utter bullshit. Harris' positions on near all issues is no less progressive than Sanders'. Note the use of "Hillary 2.0" and see it for what it is.

We're going to see as lot of this, as I've said earlier. The purpose here is fomenting division among left-leaning voters by bad-mouthing candidates. Much of this will originate within right wing circles and will then be spread around with the pretense that the origins are folks on the left.

So let's keep our eyes on the Dem candidates that Lash sets out to demean and how she goes about it.
hightor
 
  6  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 12:36 pm
Attack of the Fanatical Centrists

Quote:
Why is American politics so dysfunctional? Whatever the deeper roots of our distress, the proximate cause is ideological extremism: Powerful factions are committed to false views of the world, regardless of the evidence.

Notice that I said factions, plural. There’s no question that the most disruptive, dangerous extremists are on the right. But there’s another faction whose obsessions and refusal to face reality have also done a great deal of harm.

But I’m not talking about the left. Radical leftists are virtually nonexistent in American politics; can you think of any prominent figure who wants us to move to the left of, say, Denmark? No, I’m talking about fanatical centrists.

Over the past few days we’ve been treated to the ludicrous yet potentially destructive spectacle of Howard Schultz, the Starbucks billionaire, insisting that he’s the president we need despite his demonstrable policy ignorance. Schultz obviously thinks he knows a lot of things that just aren’t so. Yet his delusions of knowledge aren’t that special. For the most part, they follow conventional centrist doctrine.

First, there’s the obsession with public debt. This obsession might have made some sense back in 2010, when some feared a Greek-style crisis, although even then I could have told you that such fears were misplaced. In fact, I did.

In any case, however, eight years have passed since Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson predicted a fiscal crisis within two years unless their calls for spending cuts were heeded, yet U.S. borrowing costs remain at historical lows. These low borrowing costs mean that fears of snowballing debt are groundless; mainstream economists now tell us that “the risks associated with high debt levels are small relative to the harm cutting deficits would do.”

Schultz, however, still declares debt our biggest problem. Yet true to centrist form, his deficit concerns are oddly selective. Bowles and Simpson, charged with proposing a solution to deficits, listed as their first principle … reducing tax rates. Sure enough, Schultz is all into cutting Social Security, but opposes any tax hike on the wealthy.

Funny how that works.

In general, centrists are furiously opposed to any proposal that would ease the lives of ordinary Americans. Universal health coverage, says Schultz, would be “free health care for all, which the country cannot afford.”

And he’s not alone in saying things like that. A few days ago Michael Bloomberg declared that extending Medicare to everyone, as Kamala Harris suggests, would “bankrupt us for a very long time.”

Now, single-payer health care (actually called Medicare!) hasn’t bankrupted Canada. In fact, every advanced country besides America has some form of universal health coverage, and manages to afford it.

The real issue with “Medicare for all” isn’t costs — the taxes needed to pay for it would almost surely be less than what Americans now pay in insurance premiums. The problem instead would be political: It would be tricky persuading people to trade private insurance for a public program. That’s a real concern for Medicare-for-all advocates, but it’s not at all what either Schultz or Bloomberg is saying.

Finally, the hallmark of fanatical centrism is the determination to see America’s left and right as equally extreme, no matter what they actually propose.

Thus, throughout the Obama years, centrists called for political leaders who would address their debt concerns with an approach that combined spending cuts with revenue increases, offer a market-based health care plan and invest in infrastructure, somehow never managing to acknowledge that there was one major figure proposing exactly that — President Barack Obama.

And now, with Democrats taking a turn that is more progressive but hardly radical, centrist rhetoric has become downright hysterical. Medicare and Medicaid already cover more than a third of U.S. residents and pay more bills than private insurance.

But Medicare for all, says Schultz, is “not American.” Elizabeth Warren has proposed taxes on the wealthy that are squarely in the tradition of Teddy Roosevelt; Bloomberg says that they would turn us into Venezuela.

Where does the fanaticism of the centrists come from? Much of the explanation, I think, is sheer vanity.

Both pundits and plutocrats like to imagine themselves as superior beings, standing above the political fray. They want to think of themselves as standing tall against extremism right and left. Yet the reality of American politics is asymmetric polarization: extremism on the right is a powerful political force, while extremism on the left isn’t. What’s a would-be courageous centrist to do?

The answer, all too often, is to retreat into a fantasy world, almost as hermetic as the right-wing, Fox News bubble. In this fantasy world, social democrats like Harris or Warren are portrayed as the second coming of Hugo Chávez, so that taking what is actually a conservative position can be represented as a brave defense of moderation.

But that’s not what is really happening, and the rest of us have no obligation to indulge centrist delusions.

krugman

The trouble about the "obsession with public debt" is that it is used very effectively by rightists. As are the all the hoary old warnings about "socialism". My experience has been that voters are easily scared. And the right, with its huge dark money advantage, can effectively fund paranoia on an industrial level. It would take an especially gifted politician to secure overwhelming victories in the potentially divisive primaries, expand this base after the nomination, and then cut through all the attack ads and fake news in the actual campaign with a devastatingly honest message that appeals to voters and provides the winner with solid majorities in Congress. Because any truly radical reforms will require big legislative victories — and then prevail in the courts.
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 01:13 pm
@hightor,
Thanks for posting this article.
This a wonderful and very relevant post.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 01:24 pm
@Real Music,
Quote:
This a wonderful and very relevant post.

All it does is give you another group to hate. More divisive rhetoric meant to discount other opinions and demean those in agreement. I guess for Progressives that works.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 1 Feb, 2019 04:33 pm
@blatham,
You must not know a single progressive, do you? Kamala isn’t near the progressive universe, and any progressive will gladly tell you that.

Your party is split. Why do you think that happened? Are you THAT out of the loop?
 

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