Capital Punishment and the Bible(particularly New Testament)

Thomas wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

As to the Bible's position on capital punishment, Leviticus and Deuteronomy both prescribe capital punishment on all kinds of offenses. If anyone in the New Testament took it back, I'm not aware of it. I don't think anyone did.

You're right in saying that no one "took it back" and Jesus didn't, per se - but on the Sermon on the Mount he did put a *spin* on revenge/punishment and other such things:

"You have heard that it was said, `Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' [Exodus 21:24; Lev. 24:20 and Deut. 19:21] But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
"You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbour [Lev.19:18] and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?" -- Matthew 5:38-47

Now there's enough food for 10 Bible studies and a half...

0 Replies

Eorl wrote:

Quote:
Biliskner, please stop spouting stuff as though it's simple fact. It's obvious you don't know Jack Schmidt.

ooo... haven't had that accusation before in a forum, care to elaborate
?

I apologise, you can say anything you want.

lmao... wt...

0 Replies

Eorl wrote:

Quote:

..from the site you posted seems to re-inforce my point. The USA is not a christian country. Nor is Australia by the way.

meh. you're probably right.
i stand corrected.

0 Replies

I confess I have developed a particular disdain for organised religion in recent years. I used to think overly religious people were simply deluded. Now its clear there are two types of religious people, the deluded and the dangerously deluded. The tsunami that hit in the Indian ocean was not an act of God. But the attacks of 9/11 were. It seriously depresses me when I find people looking for answers to modern day problems by searching a book written 1900 or 1400 years ago. Those texts, the bible and the koran, between them must be responsible for more human misery than any other book in existance. They should be safely put away in university libraries to be studied only by qualified historians and social anthropologists. Close the bible and the koran and open your mind. If God hadn't wanted you to think, he wouldn't have given you a brain. And if anyone is offended by this, well I haven't finished. Monotheism must be the single worst idea of all time. Judaism is racist, Islam is repressive and Christianity is a nonsense. Out of the three if I'm forced to make a choice (and it seems people these days are increasingly forced to make a choice) then I'd go for nonsense and Christianity. From my childhood I learned one thing about the New Testament...that its central message was "Love one another". Thats all you need to know. Out of nonsense comes sense.

0 Replies

Quote:

the bible and the koran, between them must be responsible for more human misery than any other book in existance.

and don't forget "Where's Wally?"

Other than that, I'm with you.

0 Replies

You tell me who Wally is and I'll hazard a guess as to where he might be.

0 Replies

ack! must be a cultural thing.

I should have used "Barney the Dinosaur".

..and now I've wandered way off topic again !!

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I confess I have developed a particular disdain for organised religion in recent years. I used to think overly religious people were simply deluded. Now its clear there are two types of religious people, the deluded and the dangerously deluded. The tsunami that hit in the Indian ocean was not an act of God. But the attacks of 9/11 were. It seriously depresses me when I find people looking for answers to modern day problems by searching a book written 1900 or 1400 years ago. Those texts, the bible and the koran, between them must be responsible for more human misery than any other book in existance. They should be safely put away in university libraries to be studied only by qualified historians and social anthropologists. Close the bible and the koran and open your mind. If God hadn't wanted you to think, he wouldn't have given you a brain. And if anyone is offended by this, well I haven't finished. Monotheism must be the single worst idea of all time. Judaism is racist, Islam is repressive and Christianity is a nonsense. Out of the three if I'm forced to make a choice (and it seems people these days are increasingly forced to make a choice) then I'd go for nonsense and Christianity. From my childhood I learned one thing about the New Testament...that its central message was "Love one another". Thats all you need to know. Out of nonsense comes sense.

Evolution is death. One word: "Holocaust".

I used to hate (though without much passion) people who quoted anything out of context and used it for their agendas, whatever they might be. Now I welcome them, and especially so when they quote Bible verses out of context. Having said that, here is the context of your beloved Bible verse:

"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: "`Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' [Deut. 6:5] This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: `Love your neighbour as yourself.' [Lev. 19:18] All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."" -- Matthew 22:34-40

You say Christianity is nonsense. Fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But you will see that 'love one another' is not the primary concern. So, I ask you then, in the context of your "sense rising from nonsense":

"What is your definition of Love, and why do you bother Loving anyone but yourself (which i have presumed that you do indeed Love yourself)?"

Please explain and expound for the rest of us who so blindly believe nonsense - that we may emerge from our non-sensical logic like single-celled amoebas emerging from the great and holy primordial soup that is god-like in its life giving energy, remembering that order does not exist in this cold and murky soup, but rather chaos reigns, like one who believes that kicking a bunch of random bricks for at least 50 million years will result in an infinitely complex, perfect, and earthquake-proof two story house, fully equipped with kitchen, bedroom suite, dining room, 5.1 surround sound lounge room, 100" Plasma TV with HDTV, polished tile floors, full sized glass windows that stretch the perimeter of the house and a water feature for the front garden equipped with one small, but cute-ish gnome.

0 Replies

Quote:

Evolution is death. One word: "Holocaust".

WHAT !?! I hope you are not refering to "The Holocaust" that Hitler waged against the Jews ?!?

If there is one thing THAT REALLY UPSETS me Mad

, it's what those people did to other people just like them. What are you proposing evolution has to do with such horrific mass murder !?!?!

Evolution and racism are EXTREMELY different things.

Do you think people who don't believe in creation are all like Hitler?

Do you think they have no love for anyone if they don't love a god as a higher priority?

Do you think everyone who doesn't see the world the way you do is evil?

Man, you need therapy. Seriously.

0 Replies

Biliskner wrote:

Magginkat wrote:

Say HUH? I had to read that ramble two or three times to figure out that you were talking about "Paul, Stephen, etc". You start the sentence in the present tense and then switch to past tense.

You're right about one thing. That was a ramble. It was a ramble and a half, and so is this one.

Jesus lived, Jesus died - 30 A.D. and Jesus rose - 30.3 A.D.
Jesus' 10 apostles died for their faith - 30.3 - 80 A.D.
John, Jesus' apostle, exiled for being a follower of Christ.
Paul, "the apostle to the Gentiles" beheaded for following Christ.
Other followers, Stephen etc. stoned by the crowd for following Christ.

How is that starting the sentence in the present tense then switching to past tense?

..........................................................................................
Actually Bilkiner,
You didn't exactly quote yourself correctly. You avoided the key part that I was talking about. Here is the exact quote:

Jesus lived, Jesus died - 30 A.D. and Jesus rose - 30.3 A.D.
Jesus' 10 apostles died for their faith - 30.3 - 80 A.D.
John, Jesus' apostle, exiled for being a follower of Christ.
Paul, "the apostle to the Gentiles" beheaded for following Christ.
Other followers, Stephen etc. stoned by the crowd for following Christ.

People don't die for a lie, especially not when all they have to do is say that "Christ did not rise from the dead" and their lives would have been spared.

Now take that last sentence just as you wrote it "people don't die for a lie, especially.................................

That't the first part that was confusing. Did you mean to say that these people didn't have to die for a lie, especially when all they had to do was to say that "Christ did not rise from the dead and their lives would have been spared?

If I read it exactly as you wrote it I would have to wonder about your sanity since so many Christian men are dying right now in Iraq because of lies and I'll guarantee you that saying "Christ did not rise from the dead" would not have saved any of them.

As for the rest of your ramble, I stand by what I said previously. You do this though out your posts making them almost unreadable. I assume that it's because you are in such a hurry to say that you are right and anyone who opposes you is wrong that you just spew away with no regard to sentence structure or how it might sound to other people.

After all the religious fanatics, who support you, will understand because they read a word here and a word there that says what they want to hear.

I'm glad you are happy with your new found religion. I have read enough crap from the religious fanatics who think they prove that their god exists without buying one of their books. Thanks, but no thanks. I have ordered "Bible Fraud" because I know it will be interesting to read the other side of the story.

I sat here and watched a program on that fraudulent Christian Benny Hine, or whatever his name is, a couple nights ago. I find it amazing and appalling that supposedly intelligent people fall for this crap. That phony weasel travels the world in luxury jets and stay in luxury hotels costing up to $3,000 a night and lives in a mansion all from money he has squeezed from these poor dumb people who for some reason think that he can cure cancer & a multitude of other diseases.

They do this in spite of the fact that this quack has been exposed time and again as a total fraud. This is typical of the religious fanatics who lead their churches in this country.

I was raised in a Presbyterian Church & later in the Catholic Church where, at the very least, we were taught that God was a kind and loving God....likewise for Jesus.

How did this God go from being that kind and loving god to the screaming, screeching thing that Benny Hines and Jerry Falwell preach about, who is going to fry my arse in hell if I don't do as they say?

The bottom line is that you can't prove there is a god. The final proof lies in death when everyone lies rotting in the ground. What we do know is that the body rots and lies there for however many yrs or centuries it takes for it to disintegerate.

That's all we know for a fact. The rest has been dreamed up in the minds of men trying to explain the facts of nature..... thunderstorms, lightning, comets, meteors, floods, etc.

The other answer is blind faith and that is of no interest to me.

0 Replies

Eorl wrote:

Quote:
Evolution is death. One word: "Holocaust".

WHAT !?! I hope you are not refering to "The Holocaust" that Hitler waged against the Jews ?!?

If there is one thing THAT REALLY UPSETS me , it's what those people did to other people just like them. What are you proposing evolution has to do with such horrific mass murder !?!?!

Evolution and racism are EXTREMELY different things.

Do you think people who don't believe in creation are all like Hitler?

Do you think they have no love for anyone if they don't love a god as a higher priority?

Do you think everyone who doesn't see the world the way you do is evil?

Man, you need therapy. Seriously.

I have come to the same conclusion.

It never ceases to amaze me the length some of these people will go to try to prove their own personal insanity.

I'm outta here before I catch whatever they have. People lose all reason when it comes to religion.

They don't have the sense to look back at history and see that religion has been the cause of more wars & insanity than all other vices combined.

Crazy!

0 Replies

Bilikner

It is not my intention, and I have no wish to hurt other people by calling into question and challenging their deeply held beliefs. But I now feel obliged to do that regardless of the hurt I may cause, because some beliefs are harmful in themselves.

But lets clear one thing up from the start. I said the central message of the New Testament as I understood it as a child was "love one another". I did not make a direct quote with reference, so there is no need to try and pick me up on an incorrect quote.

As for your bizarre statement that "evolution is death. One word Holocaust", I think you are trying to tell me that because the nazis adopted a rational scientific approach, that all rational thinkers are no better than genocidal murderers. I suppose I have a right to feel offended by that, but reading the rest of your post, it is clear it comes from someone of no great weight, and therefore I will let it pass.

What is my definition of love? Let me tell you something. When you've stared into the abyss where there is no light. Where there is no hope, no prospect of release, and you just want an end; when you start thinking about the practicalities and not the consquences...then you realise at that darkest of dark moments that in fact nobody actually gives a damn. That there is no love, no compassion in the world; only behaviour, conditioned by environment and genes. And you know what? I find that strangely comforting.

Your last sentence which begins "Please explain....." and ends "....cute-ish gnome", with about 130 randomly selected words in the middle, has no object, and so I have no idea what it is you would like me to explain.

0 Replies

I live in a religious fanatic hell hole and see this garbage every day of the week. It still makes no sense whatsoever that anyone with a brain can come to such amazing, scientific violating conclusions based on inane writings of a bunch of old men who can't even keep their stories straight.

As for Revelations, it's not even good science fiction but I imagine it has inspired some fine writing on that subject.

I wonder what the guy who wrote that was smoking?

0 Replies

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

What is my definition of love? Let me tell you something. When you've stared into the abyss where there is no light. Where there is no hope, no prospect of release, and you just want an end; when you start thinking about the practicalities and not the consquences...then you realise at that darkest of dark moments that in fact nobody actually gives a damn. That there is no love, no compassion in the world; only behaviour, conditioned by environment and genes. [U/] And you know what? I find that strangely comforting.

I knew it!! Atheists don't have feelings!!! :wink:

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard! Can you say "Atheists shooting themselves in the foot?" I'm sorry....please explain why if there is no 'real love', why people sacrifice themselves for the things they love...*sarcastically* they do it because it helps with self-preservation...doesn't it? They do it because it is in their own interests. Please explain how love is just a mental process and nothing more. Please tell me that you would not die for something that you *trully* love. Please, prove my point, and show how I come to the conclusion of atheists being 'cold' and without morals....sheesh....no real love....are you serious? You may have a hard time finding a scientific answer.

0 Replies

Thunder Runner..... the question was not for me but I do want to comment that I think you are correct when you named your location.... middle earth!

0 Replies

No surprises here my atheist friends, I agree with thunder. But, we have people like steve that say things that don't make sense on our side too. So both sides have people like him " shooting themselves and their sides in the foot."

0 Replies

Please...anyone tell me(atheist or creationist) that there is something/someone that they love so much that they would not die for it.

0 Replies

Thunderunner

I've never described myself as an atheist. That decription is yours and yours alone, based on a false assumption.

I prefer to keep my ideas about Deity private. And although I say it myself, the world would be a better place if more people followed my example.

0 Replies

I don't mean to get personal, I just want to know if I am the only person who can love without it coming from a desire for any kind of personal gain.

0 Replies

Are you saying that we should follow your example steve? That would mean that you are above the rest of us. I probably am reading more into that than I should but that is what I got from it.

0 Replies

Capital Punishment and the Bible(particularly New Testament)

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know