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SOCIAL SECURITY: IT'S NOT WHAT YOU THINK

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:17 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
This was posted by me on the previous page.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote, "How would diverting ss taxes to personal accounts help, hinder, or do nothing to further that goal?" 1) personal accounts do not guarantee bigger earnings for all investments; the stock market does not guarantee any gains, 2) do the math; the $1,000 starting maximum in 2009 plus adding $100 every year for xxx years, and see how much you come up with, 3) if one participates in this voluntary person account system, it reduces social security benefits, 4) the cost of funding personal accounts a) does not help the social security fund, b) increases the national debt by one to two trillion dollars by government estimates, and c) it actually begins to dismantle the intent of social security which is to guarantee some income for the retired.

I thought I answered your question - point by point.


Yes yes, you did. I thought you were referring to my second question when you said I was asking the impossible. This one:
Quote:
Is there any circumstance under which private accounts could further the original intent of social security?


I saw your points and agree with them if the proposal for private accounts is as I think it is. But one of the problems I realized with my question is that it didn't make assumptions as to how private accounts might or might not be done, and that kind of left things open.

For instance, Clinton proposed using the projected surplus in the late 90s to fund private accounts for everyone that would be in addition to ss. I kind of like the idea, but again, the details...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:18 pm
JW, Yes, but we are well diversified between stocks, bonds, annuities, and cash - and the past is no guarantee of future performance - and we have enough assets to "gamble" on stock funds (less than 15 percent of our assets).
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:19 pm
This is the one that kills me. The Bush administration uses one projected rate of growth to give us dire warnings of how bad it will be for SS then uses a completely different rate to tell us how great private investments will be.

Can't they at least be honest enough to compare apples to apples?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:20 pm
Let me explain: when I retired, I transferred a huge portion of our stock portfolio into bonds, because I wanted to ensure some basic security of our portfolio. The general rule of thump for investing is to have a higher ratio of stocks when young, and less when ready to retire. I believe that rule of thumb is wise, and recommend it to anybody considering investment in the stock market.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:22 pm
Quote:
Can't they at least be honest enough to compare apples to apples?


Um, no? That would ruin their whole plan.

Cycloptichorn
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:24 pm
The biggest threat to SS is the deficit. This is one that the politicians really don't want to face up to. The deficit today without SS is almost the same amount that SS pays out. If in 20 years we are running a budget with no deficit we would be paying back SS. When the trust fund runs out the surpluses that were paying back SS would still exist and could continue to pay the unfunded part of SS without any change in taxes.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:25 pm
They wouldn't be able to sell anything if they told the truth.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:27 pm
parados wrote:
The biggest threat to SS is the deficit. This is one that the politicians really don't want to face up to. The deficit today without SS is almost the same amount that SS pays out. If in 20 years we are running a budget with no deficit we would be paying back SS. When the trust fund runs out the surpluses that were paying back SS would still exist and could continue to pay the unfunded part of SS without any change in taxes.


Excellent point!
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:31 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Let me explain: when I retired, I transferred a huge portion of our stock portfolio into bonds, because I wanted to ensure some basic security of our portfolio. The general rule of thump for investing is to have a higher ratio of stocks when young, and less when ready to retire. I believe that rule of thumb is wise, and recommend it to anybody considering investment in the stock market.


Good on you! I'm not even middle-aged, though. Plus, I don't have a PhD in Economics.

However, I did manage to make money last year and it was an "off" year!

I plan to do way better this year.

I think some here 'misunderestimate' the average person and their knowledge of Wall Street.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:31 pm
Agreed, mucho excellent point!

Perhaps if we want to pay the bills of the future, we should stop running them up in the present....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:39 pm
Just writes:
Quote:
Good on you! I'm not even middle-aged, though. Plus, I don't have a PhD in Economics.

However, I did manage to make money last year and it was an "off" year!

I plan to do way better this year.

I think some here 'misunderestimate' the average person and their knowledge of Wall Street.


Last year was an "off" year? I guess you are proving the point that the average investor thinks he does better than he really does. The S&P gained 10% last year. Hardly an "off" year. I would guess you personally gained about 9-9.5% based on the math. Unless the market does "way better" this year it is unlikely you will do "way better."
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:41 pm
I plan to do some insider trading LOL.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:43 pm
If you want to see Martha, you don't have to go to jail with insider trading. She will be at her estate every day for the next 6 months.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:44 pm
parados, thanks for the info from the last page. Using that, I found this report, if anyone is interested.

http://www.americanbenefitscouncil.org/documents/11-04_ss_comm_sum.pdf
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:45 pm
LOL.

Parados - I heard a cute joke the other day. Can't remember if it was Leno or not...

Someone said "if there's only 2 workers supporting me for Social Security, I want one of them to be Tiger Woods".

LOL.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:48 pm
LOL

Are you saying you think Tiger is cute?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:50 pm
Quote:
I think some here 'misunderestimate' the average person and their knowledge of Wall Street.


Pfff. By posting here, you've already put yourself above at least 40% of Americans when it comes to intelligence level/ability to understand complicated concepts.

One must recall that every backwoods hickass jerkoff all over America will suddenly be making complicated financial decisions about their SS monies... not exactly a recepie for success.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:50 pm
Free,
I like the guarentee in option 2 that low wage earning couples are guarenteed 75% of joint benefits when one dies. I don't think they get that today. Not sure what base is for SS today. 150% of poverty? anyone know?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:50 pm
Dang. I never could tell a joke LOL.

No no...you know how they say there will only be 2 workers to support each retired person on Social Security. Well, someone said he wanted ONE of those workers to be Tiger (cuz he'd pay in more I guess LOL).

<Tiger's kinda cute. Married, though> Smile
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:52 pm
Quote:
One must recall that every backwoods hickass jerkoff all over America will suddenly be making complicated financial decisions about their SS monies... not exactly a recepie for success.


No they won't Cyc. They will be leaving those financial decisions up to all the hucksters lined up to steal everything they can from them.
0 Replies
 
 

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