A man and a gender studies professor walk into an elevator...

Do you really think that we should teach girls to keep their wayward comments to themselves. This is another case where modern feminism seems surprisingly similar to Victorian era rules for the proper behavior of a lady.

Wayward dick/pussy comments?

Yes.

I wonder if you have recently worn a "pussy" hat (as many feminist women are doing these days). Pussy hats are a pretty effective (if somewhat vulgar) way to get a message across. There are people who have expressed being offended by pussy hats. I approve of them as communication.

I am sure that if you have a pussy hat, you will be able to justify it. That's one of the problems of morality codes. Everyone thinks that their particular exception if valid while everyone else is wrong.

I resist morality codes in general. But that is my decision and I am not going to censor myself based on your opinion. I teach my daughter the same thing... she should express herself and someone doesn't like it, tough. Obviously it is not that simple, there is a place for civility. But basically, I answer to my own set of values, and I teach my daughter to answer to hers.

I am teaching my daughter to speak up, defend her opinions, make jokes, tell stories and express herself openly without worrying about the disapproval of others.

This is the opposite of what you seem to be saying.

There is a discussion on how to get more women in my field (software engineering). Educators are saying that one of the problems is that women taught not to be outspoken... at an early age they are taught to worry about the opinions of others and to censor themselves.

This is a big problem in scientific and engineering fields where the ability to promote your ideas, to get questions resolved and to bring up important issues quickly.

I think you are going backwards.

You can teach your daughter anything and any way you want. Just don't be surprised when she gets reprimanded for offensive language and/or behavior.

I on the other hand, have taught my children not every comment that goes through a brain has to come out a mouth. It's called respect, honor and compassion. I am saddened you haven't taught these virtues to your child.

Oh well. Some bad apples don't fall far from from a diseased tree.

That is why your kids will be working for my daughter someday.

At McDonald's?

Or she could give them cabinet positions.

This is why discussing children on the internet is wrong. So if you want to continue racing towards nastiness, I'll leave you to your own devises.

You went low, I went high. You you imagined your kids and mine working at McDonalds. I gave your kids and mine positions in the White House. Either way, no kids were harmed.

My daughter has a shirt that says "Well-behaved women seldom make history". I like that shirt.

I went high four pages ago.

Again, discussing children over the internet is wrong. I've said that to you on numerous occasions.

I could tell. Did you save some for me?

Ok, I'm done.

I wish she had more of a sense of humor... I thought it was funny and harmless.

I guess I can see how a joke about women's underwear, told in a packed elevator, could make women uncomfortable.

I can see it as somewhat inappropriate. I can see it as making the woman extremely uncomfortable if she were alone with a man in the elevator.

What if we reversed the genders. Would either of you (assuming you are both male) be uncomfortable if a woman made a joke about men's underwear?

I suppose if there were just the two of us, I might wonder what her intentions were. I don't think I would be "extremely" uncomfortable in either case, particularly if it were clearly an attempt at humor (however awkward).

Last night, at a poker table with strangers, a man told me he thought I was handsome to awkward chuckles around the table. I can't be sure of his intentions, he was probably trying to make me uncomfortable. I laughed it off. As an adult, I am not fragile and I don't need to be sheltered or vindicated.

Is the idea that women are delicate creatures that need to be shielded from any awkwardness of offense compatible with equality?

If genders were reversed, I might think it were somewhat inappropriate - depending on context. Now, on A2K, Chai mentioned several times she used men's underwear. That makes Chai fair game - up to a point.

You can't, though.

You'd have to create a world where women were 7-feet tall and had a history of kneeing guys in the balls every 20th elevator ride a guy took. In this hypothetical world, guys would be scared of that happening to them when they got in the elevator, and they'd hate jokes about women kneeing guys in the balls.

The point is, you can't apply exactly the same rules to women's behavior as you do to men's because women are at a physical and social disadvantage against men.

You are comparing violence against women with underwear jokes. This doesnt make sense for several reasons.

Violence agains women (and less frequently domestic violence against men) is a serious problem that causes real emotional and physical injury.When you switch the gender roles violence is still violence; it is wrong because it is violence, not because of the weakness of the victim.

This has nothing to do with jokes about underwear.

Sexual assault is violence. When you start talking about underwear, women may wonder what you'll do next.

Some men start by telling jokes, but have a bad reaction if people don't find their jokes funny. Just think of the boys' locker room where a bully starts off with a joke, and then when the weaker boy shows that he doesn't know the correct response, the bully gets more aggressive.

If a woman in the elevator doesn't find an underwear joke funny, she may laugh anyway, out of a fear that this could be a violent man with a weak ego whom she has to appease.