A man and a gender studies professor walk into an elevator...

I have read all your articles, Neptune (and I am still disappointed that you missed out on Monty Python). I don't think that they paint a very positive view of feminism. In them...

1) The writers paint men as stereotypes; aggressive, arrogant and abusive. They don't accept that men are human beings with individual traits.

2) The feminist writers paint women as stereotypes; helpful, vulnerable, fragile, requiring protection. They don't accept that women are adults, with the ability to take responsibility for their own actions. This is the reason I feel the need to inoculate my daughter against feminist ideology.

3) The writers don't propose any practical solutions... just anger at men's perceived misbehavior.

4) These feminist writers seem perfectly happy to imply that correlation does imply causation. They cling to non-scientific studies that support their claims, while ignoring any counter evidence. They attack anyone, including non-biased researchers, who dare to question them. A study is valid as long as it can be made to support the narrative.

I don't believe that these articles paint a very positive view of feminism. I do not believe that women have any difficulty with science. I do believe that feminists have difficulty with science; not because of their gender, but because they put ideology above fact.

And again... these are just the conclusions I reach from reading the articles that Neptune has posted. If someone could post some articles where feminist writers thoughtfully consider more than one point of view, or provide constructive ideas to make things better that don't involve bitterness toward men... I might learn something different.

I also want to point out, you have a style of argument that reminds me of our president.

Every criticism that someone makes against Trump, he turns it around to attack his critics. They accuse him of fake news, he accuses them of fake news. They complain that his supporters use racist remarks, he accuses democrats of making racist remarks.

I have noticed you tend to do the same thing.

I don't understand why you keep dragging an underage naive child into this discussion. You are NOT helping her when you try to cover up sexual harassment and abuse. She does not require PROTECTION, she requires TRUTH in this is what's going to happen to HER. You've not armed her to be able to spot what harassment is, how to report such incidences or even to know what's appropriate and what isn't.

The FACT is, you are so intent on discounting ANY thing I post, whether from Psychology Today, The Washington Post or any other CREDIBLE news source that your daughter has been set up to fail.

I find that disturbing and unnecessary.

I don't cover up harassment or abuse. I speak honestly with her about these topics. Of course I teach her to report what is inappropriate.

I also teach her not to be traumatized by dick jokes (actually she learned this on her own... many preteen girls like off-color jokes). The idea of the proper lady who must remain pure and respectable is as sexist as anyone else. Feminist ideals of womanhood are sometimes remarkably similar to Victorian ideals of a proper lady who must always be respected and respectable.

I also teach her to say 'No' very clearly and strongly when she doesn't want to have sex. We talked about the Aziz Ansari story, and what went wrong and how this women could have avoided this experience by simply being clear about what she did or didn't want.

I also teach my daughter not to abuse alcohol, and if she is going to drink to make sure she is with people she really trusts. It is a fact that the majority of rapes on campus involve irresponsible drinking. This, of course, doesn't excuse rape with alcohol... it is just the reality. But not teaching my daughter to avoid alcohol abuse is ridiculous.

This is her world, and actually it is pretty safe for her. I want her to be strong and smart and unafraid. As I pointed out, there are some parts of feminism with which I agree... we can talk about those if you like, but you seem to be more upset with me when I agree with you. I want her to have equal pay, and to have a safe work environment.

I am pushing back against you because I feel you are pushing an extreme, one-sided view of feminism that paints women as helpless, angry and afraid.

I have no problem agreeing with you where we have common ground. There is a lot more of this than your stereotypical view of non-feminist men wants to admit.

Oh... and I teach my daughter engineering. We solder together, and build web pages. She has changed the headlamps in my car, and installed computerized LEDs in her bedroom.

Feminism will not help her become a successful engineer (if that is what she chooses). Engineering will. Knowing there are gender studies professors trying to explain why there aren't more women in STEM fields makes me laugh.

Unafraid is one thing, uneducated is another. If you cannot or will not admit how sexual harassment infiltrates our society, how can you effectively teach it to your child?

Campus rape is so much more than irresponsible drinking or saying "no" but that seems to be your only focus. Sexual harassment occurs in the moment and you have yet to demonstrate your ability to take it seriously. You post youtube jokes as if it's supposed to make it all right. It doesn't. It makes you look uneducated, pompous, ill equipped to teach any body anything until YOU understand what women are fighting for.

Cutting irresponsible drinking, and teaching women to say 'No' clearly, dramatically reduce the incidence of campus rape. These are the only things that have been shown by research to make any impact.

Yes, the research shows that programs that teach women to avoid binge drinking, and to say 'No' clearly and assertively significantly reduce the incidence of campus rape. Programs that teach men "not to rape" have never been shown to have any significant impact.

Many people find these results to be troubling for ideological reasons. As a father who cares about his daughter these results make it pretty clear what I am going to teach her.

Name just ONE program. And give source back up.

There are none. That's the point.

Because there are no specific programs to teach men NOT to rape or NOT to engage in sexual harassment/abuse, women and men have stepped up, started collectively using their voice and political power to instill change.

Because of the #MeToo movement, women have had more of an open dialog on how widespread the issue of sexual harassment. Raising awareness is a key issue.

Even the title of your OP is how sexual harassment is common place and actually, in your case, encouraged. How much different would a discussion be if the title actually reflected the truth?

"Professor Sexually Harasses Colleague At Cultural Symposium"

You can do the googling yourself, you know. Of course colleges all have programs to address sexual assault and harrassment. Here's one: https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2017/09/preventing-sexual-assault-on-college-campuses/

If you did the google yourself, you would find quite a few examples of programs. You will find that the successful ones are the ones that address alcohol abuse and communicating clearly.

This is a political narrative. How "common place" sexual harrassment is depends on how you define "sexual harrassment" and what unscientific polls you cherry pick.

I don't know of anyone who has the goal of encouraging sexual harrassment. This is a political ad hominem attack (and a pretty nasty one).

That is ridiculous.... your definition of a lingerie joke as harrassment reflects your political bias. It ridiculous, if joking about underwear counts as harrassment... almost anything is harrassment and the word has no meaning.

I started this thread to talk about how feminism taken to an extreme is ridiculous. The title appropriately communicates this. The story is a perfectly good example; this woman wasn't harmed in any way. He didn't pressure her in any way. Neither one had any power or authority over the other.

And yet this silly joke still counts as harassment... that is the point.

Let me explain the problem as clear as possible. Consider these two hypothetical situations.

1) If my daughter walks into her bosses office to discuss her performance on the job and her opportunity for promotion; and he closes the door and then puts his hand on her knee and says "if you want to succeed you need to do what it takes..."

2) If my daughter is on an elevator at a conference and a peer she doesn't even work with makes a stupid joke about underwear.

You are using the same word, "harrassment" to refer to both of these situations. The first would make me furious (and maybe homicidal). The second would not even make me raise an eyebrow (and she would only tell me if she thought the joke was funny).

How are these two things even remotely similar?

Your refusal to acknowledge jokes about underwear are inappropriate shows exactly how backward thinking is prevalent. It is no longer socially acceptable to do so and if proven (in which this case it was) then there will be sanctions against the perpetrator.

There's a phrase you should get to know:

Time's Up. https://www.timesupnow.com/

"No more silence. No more waiting. No more tolerance for discrimination, harassment or abuse."

I think being upset about underwear jokes is awfully prudish and out of touch.
This book is available in the children's section of your local bookstore or library.

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges, Captain Underpants is not a sexually charges series, it's an elementary school principle fighting evil who happens to be in underwear. And most 3th graders have moved on to a different series. Now if the story line were to have Captain Underpants flash his genitals, well, we'd have big issues.

In this post, the professor used language specifically to embarrass somebody by using sexual innuendo to elicit laughs. It was unwarranted, unsolicited, and out of context. Hence, he was reprimanded by a superior.

He was not reprimanded by a superior. Some impotent board of a professional organization wrote him a nasty letter, which he ignored... other than taking his case public. The organization ended up being far more embarrassed than he was. He has been criticized some. But, the gender studies professor has been more widely criticized than he has... including in liberal media such as the Atlantic. Simona Sharoni, the gender studies professor, will tell you herself that she has faced far more consequences than he has.

The real point is this... We agree that abuse of power (as I described above) is harrassment and should be taken very seriously. You also use the term "harassment" for this ridiculous disagreement on an elevator. It is not surprising that you see far more harrassment than I do.

I don't see how these two situations are remotely similar.

If Time's Up! means that we are going to start taking workplace sexual abuse seriously, for example bosses using their authorities to use or degrade their employees, it will be useful and will get widespread support, even from me.

If Time's Up! means that we are going to start getting outraged about offhand comments on elevators, it is meaningless phrase that will be nothing more than a punch line about how silly feminists can be when they take themselves too seriously.

I am happy that you are defending this woman so strongly in her outrage over a frivolous comment ... it makes my point about modern feminism, perfectly.

The best way to handle any situation is to keep wayward comments to yourself. Maybe you weren't taught that.

No I wasn't taught that. To be fair, I don't teach my daughter that either. We both tend to be confident, opinionated and outspoken. I am pretty sure that my daughter would not have apologized for making an underwear joke; especially after someone went over her head to get one. I will ask her...