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Immigration - Discussing Non-Partisan Solutions

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 01:29 pm
ahh, the government link (still no local news, but this is a link to the co-ordinating body)

link

Quote:
BACKGROUNDER
HIRING FOREIGN AGRICULTURAL WORKERS IN CANADA

Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program

The Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program (SAWP) allows for the organized entry of foreign workers to work in agricultural labourer occupations in Canada. The SAWP is managed by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC) and Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) in cooperation with agricultural producers and a number of foreign countries. Under bilateral arrangements reached in 1974 between Canada and Mexico, the demand-driven SAWP responds to requests from employers to offset labour shortfalls.

The program allows for the entry of foreign workers to meet the temporary seasonal needs of Canadian agricultural producers during peak harvesting and planting periods, when there are traditionally shortages of qualified Canadian workers. HRSDC and CIC carefully balance these types of job offers with the employers' comprehensive efforts to hire Canadians and the well-being of the foreign workers in Canada.

More specifically, before being allowed to hire foreign agricultural workers, the employer must demonstrate advertisement and recruitment efforts, and agree to a number of additional requirements that favour the hiring of Canadians. Under the terms of the SAWP, foreign workers receive wages commensurate with those of Canadian workers, employer-paid international airfare, subsidized accommodations, as well as health and medical benefits.

The SAWP currently operates in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, and meets the needs of specific agricultural commodity sectors.

It is expected that being able to hire Mexican labourers will allow BC agricultural employers to increase revenues and reduce wasted produce that cannot be harvested if Canadian agricultural workers are not available.


and the actual how-to

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/epb/lmd/fw/seasagri.shtml

Quote:
HIRING STEPS :

Employers hiring agricultural foreign workers must :

1. Contact the HRSDC Foreign Worker office responsible for your area.


** Please contact your local office for an application form and related information.

2. Complete a human resources plan eight weeks before the work starts explaining your efforts to find Canadian workers.
* Learn more about the HRSDC assessment criteria and what is expected from employers, noting that a Quebec Acceptance Certificate (CAQ) issued by the province is also required for jobs in Quebec.

3. Be prepared to fill a SAWP employer-employee contract.

4. Once HRSDC has approved your job offer, you and the two non-profit organizations will receive a copy of the HRSDC confirmation.

Next, the foreign countries (Mexico and Caribbean) recruit the agricultural workers.
5. The foreign workers are helped by their respective foreign governments and apply for work permits from CIC. Please note that the employment contract must be signed by both you and the foreign worker before CIC will issue a work permit.

Next, CIC issues a work permit for no more than 8 months as long as the foreign worker meets all other CIC criteria for working and residing temporarily in Canada .
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:12 pm
msolga wrote:
But the "illegals" wouldn't have those jobs if the unemployed were prepared to do them.


Yeah. You're right. Child labor had a market, too. I suppose you're for that?

All illegal work does is enrich the dregs of American society--the legal immigrants do this work--but in an OSHA regulated environment and for decent wages.

I don't think you know what sheer hell you're advocating. I sincerely hope you don't.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:29 pm
Work visas, especially for the farm industry, makes perfectly good sense to me.

Currently the U.S. immigration policy seems to be to look the other way while tens of thousands of illegals enter the country, take care of those who make it here safely whether they can support themselves or not, and then every few years offer some kind of amnesty program so we have an excuse not to have to round everybody up and shoo them back across the borders.

Is there any other industrialized nation anywhere with a policy that lax?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:33 pm
So, Fox. You don't want to let them immigrate?

Trying to make sure I know your complete stance.

(Completely against amnesty program. It conditions illegals to come, hide, and wait it out....while bankrupting our safety nets for citizens...)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:52 pm
Is there a reason that both systems - work visas, and immigration - couldn't work in the U.S., as they do in other countries?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:23 pm
Lash writes
Quote:
So, Fox. You don't want to let them immigrate?

Trying to make sure I know your complete stance.


You could read my previous posts and come to this conclusion? I don't think so.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:32 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Is there a reason that both systems - work visas, and immigration - couldn't work in the U.S., as they do in other countries?


I can't think of another country that has a comparable problem. The Border Patrol has recently estimated that approximately 1,000,000 cross our borders, illegally, per month.

Yes, per month.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:38 pm
Likely my failing. I've read more than a few of your posts--but did leave, and should have read back, rather than be lazy and ask.

The main theme I've seen in your posts is advocating temporary work visas, and criticising the current US immigration policy.

But, I'll read back.

Pardon.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:40 pm
JustWonders wrote:
The Border Patrol has recently estimated that approximately 1,000,000 cross our borders, illegally, per month.

Yes, per month.



This was in the media published on February 13,2005, quoted here from this Source

Quote:


Could you please provide the more recent link for your source.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:52 pm
Lash wrote
Quote:
Likely my failing. I've read more than a few of your posts--but did leave, and should have read back, rather than be lazy and ask.

The main theme I've seen in your posts is advocating temporary work visas, and criticising the current US immigration policy.

But, I'll read back.

Pardon.


Sorry friend. I see my post looks like I snapped at you. Okay, I did, but didn't mean it to you personally. (I have been misunderstood and misquoted a lot recently and you were an easy target. Smile)

But yes, I think our current immigration policy, in practice if not by letter, is abominable. However heartless it may seem to some, I think legal immigrants should be allowed in only if they will be contributors to and not additional burdens on society whether they are coming here temporarily or permanently. I want to revert to an earlier time when there were tight controls, quotas, and very explicit expectations of those wanting to be U.S. citizens. I want those here illegally to fear the INS again and not feel safe or comfortable at any time.

I don't see how it benefits anybody anywhere if we weaken ourselves in the proess of helping others and therefore lose much of our ability to help.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:57 pm
De nada on the snapping.

I think we have reached a division of policy, then, at least between Fox and I.

Where do we all fall on what financial shape the immigrants are in when we accept them?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:03 pm
What division Lash?

I don't care if the immigrants are flat broke as long as they have a friend, family member or other sponsor willing to house, feed, clothe, and otherwise take care of them. I don't think they should be naturalized, however, until they have demonstrated that 1) they can navigate at a minimal level in English and 2) they as individuals or as a family can support themselves.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:07 pm
JustWonders wrote:
ehBeth wrote:
Is there a reason that both systems - work visas, and immigration - couldn't work in the U.S., as they do in other countries?


I can't think of another country that has a comparable problem. The Border Patrol has recently estimated that approximately 1,000,000 cross our borders, illegally, per month.

Yes, per month.

amazing, is this "new math?" the INS estimates there are between 8 and 11 million illegal aliens in the US, where do you get these figures?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:12 pm
Fox--

I don't feel at odds with you, at all-- this is a great thread and I hope others will return with their opinions on the points that have been discussed.

I do have a different opinion than you do about the rules you would set for immigrants.

I didn't imagine we would all agree on each point.

You seem to be a little testy in my direction today--and that's OK. I'll vacate the thread for a few days, since it's yours.

No problem.

Hasta la vista.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:14 pm
A thousand a day would be a more realistic figure I think.

INS: 7 million illegal immigrants in United States
Mexicans make up nearly 70 percent of total, figures show

From Terry Frieden
CNN
Saturday, February 1, 2003 Posted: 12:48 AM EST (0548 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- More than a million illegal immigrants have slipped into the United States in the past few years, raising the total in the country to 7 million, the Immigration and Naturalization Service said Friday.

The vast majority of the illegal immigrants are from Mexico, officials said.

The numbers are based on census figures from 2000 and the agency's own statistics. They are the first official government figures on illegal immigration released since 1996.

The figures show that between October 1996 and January 2000, the number of illegal immigrants grew from about 5.8 million to about 7 million, an increase of more than 300,000 annually.

The proportion of the illegal immigrants who are Mexican has increased to nearly 70 percent from less than 60 percent, the INS said.

Although California is home to the most undocumented immigrants, Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina have the greatest rate of increase, the figures showed.

Justice Department spokesman Jorge Martinez said the latest figures are believed to be more accurate than previous ones because they reflect new methods used to determine trends in the entry and departure of undocumented residents.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/31/illegal.immigration/
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:19 pm
Lash wrote
Quote:
I don't feel at odds with you, at all-- this is a great thread and I hope others will return with their opinions on the points that have been discussed.

I do have a different opinion than you do about the rules you would set for immigrants.

I didn't imagine we would all agree on each point.

You seem to be a little testy in my direction today--and that's OK. I'll vacate the thread for a few days, since it's yours.

No problem.

Hasta la vista.


Don't you dare vacate the premises. I honestly was asking where we differed in the policy? I haven't found much to disagree with you on so was just interested in where you saw the differences.

And I am NOT testy toward you and will thwap you if you say I am. Smile
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:19 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Is there a reason that both systems - work visas, and immigration - couldn't work in the U.S., as they do in other countries?


None that I can think of!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:22 pm
And in fairness to JW's assessment of the number of illegals in this country, how in the world would anybody know? Who's at the border counting people as they come across? When you have 15 or 20 people living together in one house, as is not all that uncommon here, how does one determine how many such houses there are? If the INS knows of 7 million undocumented people here, how many doesn't it know about?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:29 pm
Okay, I'll believe it: 1,000,000 illegal immigrants per months.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 04:32 pm
well yeah fox, if you don't have real numbers, make them up and the bigger the number the better, right? I thought this something only liberals would do. But I'm fair and balanced, you decide.
0 Replies
 
 

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