old europe wrote:
Yeah! The good ol' times, those were
Althought quite frustrating: ever tried to explain such at 5:45 in the morning to workers rushing in the Opel factory or miners coming out from the pit?
I mean, especially, after you had "discussed" the procedure from 20:00 h until 05:30!
OE writes:
Quote:Hmmmm.... When you say 'Constitution', are talking about the constitution from 1776? Would you have to learn about it in history classes?
I'm really just curious! I admire the fact the you can look back on that history of almost 230 years....
I mean the original including letter and intent based on the Federalist papers and other supporting documents, the content, intent, and history of all subseuqnet amendments. The U.S. constitution was written by men who believed themselves fallible and who believed in the fallibility of men and also in the inherent competent judgment and goodness of humanshind possessed both of moral virtue and freedom. The document itself was intended to engrave in granite the inalienable rights of Americans, to minimize a tyranny of either a majority or a minority, to be sure that the people would always have a voice in their government, and to allow for necessary change and provide a means to correct mistakes that would almost certainly be made. So diligent were they in their work and so magificent a document did they produce, it has survived virtually intact since its inception.
We studied it in history class, journalism class, social studies, poli-sci, and law classes.
the thing that strikes me as quite civilized when travelling from one country to another in europe(E.U. countries) is, that once you have entered the first country you are free to travel around the other member states. when we go from canada to the u.s. (which we frequently do), we have to make sure that we don't carry any oranges, apples ... with us. when we re-enter canada we have to state how long we were out of canada, value of goods we are bringing back ($800 per person), no agricultural products ... . the smugglers , of course, have no trouble travelling back and forth; the st lawrence river is rather long(and dark at night), and those guys have speedboats that can outrun any coastguard or customs patrol boat. the cost of these outdated (and pretty well useless) border controls is costing the u.s. and canadian economy (that is you and me) billions of dollars a year. these controls sound good on paper and can be used to pacify the general population, and that's about all. hbg
Walter Hinteler wrote:old europe wrote:
Yeah! The good ol' times, those were
Althought quite frustrating: ever tried to explain such at 5:45 in the morning to workers rushing in the Opel factory or miners coming out from the pit?
I know what you mean!! People are just sooooo unreasonable!!
A small correction, hamburger: free travel is 'only' between the so-called Schengen countries: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. (All these countries except Norway and Iceland are EU members.)
And that means: when I arrive from one of those countries at our local airport, it takes 5 minutes from opening of the plan's doors until getting kissed by the Missus, but 30 mins, when I return from the UK (only for passport reasons, however).
Foxfyre wrote:OE writes:
Quote:Hmmmm.... When you say 'Constitution', are talking about the constitution from 1776? Would you have to learn about it in history classes?
I'm really just curious! I admire the fact the you can look back on that history of almost 230 years....
I mean the original including letter and intent based on the Federalist papers and other supporting documents, the content, intent, and history of all subseuqnet amendments. The U.S. constitution was written by men who believed themselves fallible and who believed in the fallibility of men and also in the inherent competent judgment and goodness of humanshind possessed both of moral virtue and freedom. The document itself was intended to engrave in granite the inalienable rights of Americans, to minimize a tyranny of either a majority or a minority, to be sure that the people would always have a voice in their government, and to allow for necessary change and provide a means to correct mistakes that would almost certainly be made. So diligent were they in their work and so magificent a document did they produce, it has survived virtually intact since its inception.
Fox -
how would you characterize the men who wrote this:
Quote:We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity - invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God - do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.
the US has a constitution? Wow I need to look into that!
OE, regarding the preamble to the Confederate constitution, I would characterize those men as typical Americans, men of faith, fiercely independent, committed to the ideal of a government by the people, who were frustrated by an exploding population in the north causing the southern states to have less and less influence in their government. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was not the cause, but it was a catalyst for the south to secede so they could do their own thing. Our infamous Civil War thus resulted.
Foxfyre wrote:OE, regarding the preamble to the Confederate constitution, I would characterize those men as typical Americans, men of faith, fiercely independent, committed to the ideal of a government by the people, ......
I'd say so, too. I think it could be said about 'both' American Constitutions...
Fox, I wondered... reading the preamble of our Basic Law
Quote:Conscious of their responsibility before God and Men, Animated by the resolve to serve world peace as an equal partner in a united Europe, the German people have adopted, by virtue of their constituent power, this Basic Law.
... would you say it sounds weak and cowardish in comparison? I mean, especially the part about the 'world peace'... compared to
"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence"...?
old europe wrote:Foxfyre wrote:OE, regarding the preamble to the Confederate constitution, I would characterize those men as typical Americans, men of faith, fiercely independent, committed to the ideal of a government by the people, ......
I'd say so, too. I think it could be said about 'both' American Constitutions...
Fox, I wondered... reading the preamble of our Basic Law
Quote:Conscious of their responsibility before God and Men, Animated by the resolve to serve world peace as an equal partner in a united Europe, the German people have adopted, by virtue of their constituent power, this Basic Law.
... would you say it sounds weak and cowardish in comparison? I mean, especially the part about the 'world peace'... compared to
"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence"...?
Was this written before or after Germany tried to take over Europe?
McGentrix wrote:Was this written before or after Germany tried to take over Europe?
It was written after '45.
OE writes
Quote:... would you say it sounds weak and cowardish in comparison? I mean, especially the part about the 'world peace'... compared to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence"...?
It sounds more like the "Whereas" in a resolution rather than as a constiuttional statement, but I would not want to judge it based on that part alone. The U.S. Constiuttion establishes the United States as a sovereign nation and the precepts of the Constiutiton are to be a means by which the U.S. citizens may claim their inalienable rights while they have a voice in their own governance. Your document is to pledge your mission and commitment to a group.
Basically I think it is comparing apples and oranges.
old europe wrote:
It was written after '45.
It was written in summer 1948 and came into force on May 8, 1949.
Foxfyre wrote: The U.S. Constiuttion establishes the United States as a sovereign nation and the precepts of the Constiutiton are to be a means by which the U.S. citizens may claim their inalienable rights while they have a voice in their own governance. Your document is to pledge your mission and commitment to a group.
Basically I think it is comparing apples and oranges.
Well, if that really is true .... I still live under provisionary British law in the British Zone
Walter Hinteler wrote:old europe wrote:
It was written after '45.
It was written in summer 1948 and came into force on May 8, 1949.
and was promulgated by the Parliamentary Council on May 23, 1949 and Amended by the Unification Treaty of 31 August 1990 and Federal Statute of 23 September 1990.
I just thought McG didn't want to hear about those tiny details :wink:
The concept of the EU goes back to l948? I'm really impressed. (My knowledge of European history post WWII is not something to brag about).
Foxfyre wrote:The concept of the EU goes back to l948?
From where did you get this?
Quote:So, in 1950, the French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman proposed integrating the coal and steel industries of Western Europe. A a result, in 1951, the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was set up, with six members: Belgium, West Germany, Luxembourg, France, Italy and the Netherlands. The power to take decisions about the coal and steel industry in these countries was placed in the hands of an independent, supranational body called the "High Authority". Jean Monnet was its first President
The history of the European Union
The wish for a 'united Europe' is only partly connected to what in the 80's/90's became the EU: Europe was quite divided in 1948 between ....
Was just commenting on the document OE posted Walter and the snippet of history he gave regarding it. The l948 was a typo....I meant 1949. Please see OE's post re this.
