THE EU, the US, IRAN, and the ARMS EMBARGO on CHINA

Then what is that document accessed through the link JW posted?

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Look it up here:

Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe

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Thanks OE, but I don't think that answered my question.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Then what is that document accessed through the link JW posted?

(About) The same as old europe's link.

And exactly this link by JW says, the Preambel is from page 11 to page 13. And exactly that's why I mentioned it.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Thanks OE, but I don't think that answered my question.

JW was using a BBC link (to a shortened, "nice to read" version ["consolidated"] from the EU website, as of June 2004), old europe offered the official version "Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe Official Journal C 310 of 16 December 2004"

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JustWonders wrote:

I hear you, Fox. The Preamble alone is like 17 pages or so. Too much. I wonder how many Europeans have read it. I may get back to it some day, though. Or not.

As not everybody might have installed the PDF-Reader and we're talking about it:

Quote:

PREAMBLE

followed by the names/signatures of the members.

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Walter's right. In Old Europe's link, if you click on "Preamble", it's 8 pages - but mostly names of the "designates" of the member states. I still think I have a site stashed somewhere on here where the Table of Contents shows it to be 17 pages LOL.

I guess size matters. Depending on which website you choose, the entire document is still hundreds of pages.

Walter & Old - have you each read the whole thing?

Just curious.

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Nope, not yet. Want to have by the time our parliament is going to ratify it, though.

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Oh, that reminds me....'sup with that "bitter experiences" sentence?

Which bitter experiences?

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Even though it's as good a read as the Patriot Act, I'd say.

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JW- Have you read the whole constitution of the United States?

Just curious.

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Old...you can't vote on it? How many member states can, do you know?

Seems like I read nine or so. I have been known to be wrong on numbers lately, though. LOL.

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JustWonders wrote:

Oh, that reminds me....'sup with that "bitter experiences" sentence?

Which bitter experiences?

Your talking about the

Quote:

Europe, reunited after bitter experiences

part? Hm.... Let me see... WWI, WWII, the Cold War.... I don't think it refers to the Iraq War, JW :wink:

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JustWonders wrote:

Old...you can't vote on it? How many member states can, do you know?

Seems like I read nine or so. I have been known to be wrong on numbers lately, though. LOL.

10, JW. Can you vote on amendments to the constitution?

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I can't speak for JW as I don't know how old she is or what her education background is. Not only was I required to read the entire Constitution both in Hishschool and College, but was required to pass a pretty intense test on the contents of same.

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Well, we do our constitution at university - the courses are called "Constitutional Right", and lawyers later can do special courses where they qualify as specialists in constitutional law.
[I did such when studying law as well as when studying social work.
(Because I was used to such, I did constitutiuonal history courses in history as well :wink: ]

We live a parliamentary republic/democracy. Thus, voting on the constitution is done there, namely in both chambers of the parliament.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Not only was I required to read the entire Constitution both in Hishschool and College, but was required to pass a pretty intense test on the contents of same.

Hmmmm.... When you say 'Constitution', are talking about the constitution from 1776? Would you have to learn about it in history classes?
I'm really just curious! I admire the fact the you can look back on that history of almost 230 years....

We were required to read our 'Basic Law' in school. In Germany we don't have a constitution, because after '45 it was believed that the Federal Republic without the eastern part of Germany couldn't have a constitution, as the reunification was the proclaimed goal of the government. Writing a constitution was therefore seen as accepting the existence of a divided Germany.
After '89 there was a brief discussion whether or not the Basic Law should henceforth be called our constitution... But I guess people were just so used to refering to it as the Basic Law that nobody seriously bothered.

You can find the Basic Law here, it's 34 pages - and yes, we to pass a pretty intense test on it, too.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, we do our constitution at university - the courses are called "Constitutional Right", and lawyers later can do special courses where they qualify as specialists in constitutional law.

Most definitely, having to take courses in "Constitutional Right" at uni is quite different from learning about the Basic Law at school.
Nevertheless it's not like you would never ever have to learn about it until you decided to become a lawyer.

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Well, of course even even at that time, when I was at school, we learnt about it there - hell, I'm a member of the generation, who wandered around only with the Basic Law under the arm! (Under the other one the Moa bible) Laughing

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, of course even even at that time, when I was at school, we learnt about it there - hell, I'm a member of the generation, who wandered around only with the Basic Law under the arm! (Under the other one the Moa bible)

Yeah! The good ol' times, those were Very Happy

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