THE EU, the US, IRAN, and the ARMS EMBARGO on CHINA

JustWonders wrote:

Walter - read the title of the article again. If you see it as strictly UK politics, fine. The diplomatic immunity referenced clearly states it is extended to commisioners of the EU.

From the Bill:

Quote:

Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe
Commonwealth Secretariat
International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea
International Criminal Court
European Court of Human Rights
EU Bodies created in the pursuit of a Common Foreign and Security Policy and Police and Judicial Co-operation in Criminal Matters.

The only EU bodies are mentioned in the last sentence.

Besides: it is an UK bill, which might become a UK law.
Related are only British citizens, mainly (if not exclusively) on duty for the FCO.

If you think, this is something else than UK policy, would you please explain?

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JustWonders wrote:

The diplomatic immunity referenced clearly states it is extended to commisioners of the EU.

The EU commissioners can't get diplomatic immunity just from the UK.

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As far as I was informed by telephone this morning, Peter Mandelson, European commissioner for external trade, has got the right to use a UK diplomacy passport.

Interesting interview with him here, btw.

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Wow. And this is from WaPo!!!
_______________________________________________________________

Feeding the Dragon, Hurting the Alliance

Why is Europe Eager to Sell Arms to China?this would be a genuinely hostile act against the United States If the Euros pull this off, I can't imagine it not ticking off the Russians in a major way.

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and you know what's really scary JW, the French/German (even the Brits) and others really like their governments. They even like big governments that have a social agenda as well as an economic one. These are some pretty scary times and we must, I say we MUST alienate ourselves from these people, the next thing you know they will be advocating some weird kind of democracy where the government acts in accord with the wishes of the citizens. Could anything be more dangerous to the US? I think not.

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Dys - I don't know what the French/German/Brits liking their governments has to do with the embargo being lifted. Have you read the EU Constitution? I know you've read our Constitution.

Should we compare the two? Probably not. There is no comparison. Ours starts "We the people". The EU Constitution starts "His Majesty, the King of the Belgians".

If any comparisons were to be made, probably the best option would be to compare the EU Constitution to the treaties that it's replacing. I admit I'm not as prepared to do that as some of our European members would be. Are you?

Is the Commission elected? Will the people of Germany (who I know must love their country and their government) be able to vote for ratification of this new EU Constitution?

Would you be comfortable surrendering to an unelected bureaucracy of elites?

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JustWonders wrote:

Have you read the EU Constitution? I know you've read our Constitution.

Should we compare the two? Probably not. There is no comparison. Ours starts "We the people". The EU Constitution starts "His Majesty, the King of the Belgians". ?

but then, yours is signed by the deputies from only 12 States Very Happy

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JustWonders wrote:

If any comparisons were to be made, probably the best option would be to compare the EU Constitution to the treaties that it's replacing. I admit I'm not as prepared to do that as some of our European members would be. Are you?

Quote:

Through discussion and debate it became clear by mid-June that, rather than amend the existing Articles, the Convention would draft an entirely new frame of government.

link

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JustWonders wrote:

Is the Commission elected? Will the people of Germany (who I know must love their country and their government) be able to vote for ratification of this new EU Constitution?

You see, this is the often quoted difference between political systems.

We here in Germany, e.g. don't elect neither our chancellor (that's done by the parliament) nor the president (that's done by a a kind of electional committee).

We don't influence new articles to our constitution (Basic Law) neither.

And all that is regulated in our Basic Law (constitution).
(As well as the facts when there are to be hold plebiscites and referendums - this in state constitutions as well.)

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JustWonders wrote:

The EU Constitution starts "His Majesty, the King of the Belgians".

... and than adds all the other head of state.

I'm glad it does. Shows, they knew the alhabetical order.

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old Europe writes

Quote:

but then, yours is signed by the deputies from only 12 States

But ratified by all then and susequently and sworn to by all who wish to be citizens of the United States. It is a document so designed that as much as possible the government cannot govern without the advice and consent of the governed. The benefits to member states are profound.

I don't know enough about the constiutions of individual European states to know how much they might be comparable, but I haven't seen a lot of evidence that the EU has been profoundly beneficial for its members to date. Does anyone see the possibility of a United States of Europe? As a student of history, I can't imagine that, but hey, who knows. I'm not over there and don't see it up close and personal. Some of you are.

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I know Foxfyre!! But JW was kind of comparing the US and the EU constitution (even though he said he didn't) by picking out a random part (the EU constitution actually starts with: "16.12.2004").
So did I. I think, it takes more depth than that, as we can see....

But you say that

Quote:

I haven't seen a lot of evidence that the EU has been profoundly beneficial for its members to date.

I guess this depends on how you define "beneficial". Let's not forget that the idea of a Union was to strengthen international relationships and prevent wars between nations that had been at war with each other for centuries. Between 1870 and 1945, France and Germany fought each other three times. Since then, 0 times.

I would probably call this "profoundly beneficial".

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Foxfyre wrote:

but I haven't seen a lot of evidence that the EU has been profoundly beneficial for its members to date.

From the original start with 6 members, the EU until now has got 25 member states, four more on the actual "waiting list".
Those might think different to you.

Definately, Europe more became more secure, more properous and last not least more effective than if every single country had acted on its own.

A single market, no borders and a single currency is benifical for every citizen, I think - just to name these three more 'practical' things.

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Foxy - you can read it here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/21_07_04cg00086.en04.pdf

Got insomnia? This will cure it LOL.

Kinda like reading the US Tax Code. Smile

What you find may surprise you. I'm not totally through it all, but really, it's just amazing.

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Perhaps - and before you die by laughing - you should remember the purpose of this so-called EU-constitution:

the constitution is actually a "constitutional treaty", and will replace earlier EU treaties.
It is a single document saying what the EU can and cannot do.

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Yeah. I'd never have called it a "Constitution".

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Well, in the 'legal language' it certainly is one :wink:

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Oh lordy JW, I'll wait for another time to plow through the document itself. And I did plead ignorance of first hand knowledge, guys, and I am glad the EU 'treaty' is working out well for you. Over here the news seems to depict a Europe that is sort of uniformly gray and drab, slowly being dragged down by unsustainable social entitlements with ever lower productivity and higher unemployment. And this is from a leftwing media that just as often compares U.S. policies unfavorably with those of Europe.

But then, I would be the first to say you can't believe much of what you read in the newspapers. Smile

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I hear you, Fox. The Preamble alone is like 17 pages or so. Too much. I wonder how many Europeans have read it. I may get back to it some day, though. Or not.

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JustWonders wrote:

I hear you, Fox. The Preamble alone is like 17 pages or so. .

I don't know what text you looked at, but it surely wasn't the official.

The preambel is just two sites, the first only containing the titles of the different head of states.

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THE EU, the US, IRAN, and the ARMS EMBARGO on CHINA

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