9
   

What rules would You set for civil behavior?

 
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 11:31 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I want to ask the honest question... how would you define a set of rules for civil behavior that would apply equally to people no matter what opinions they hold. In particular.

- Who should be allowed to post an dissenting opinion on which thread?


Everyone, on any thread.

Quote:
- In what circumstances is attacking the reasoning behind someone's argument acceptable?


In all cases.

Quote:
- In what circumstances is attacking someone's intelligence or worth as a human being acceptable?


I can't think of a circumstance, but if you have one in mind I may reconsider.

Quote:
- Who decides which opinions are acceptable and which should not be expressed?


Each individual poster can make up their minds about what they want to see or engage in.

Quote:
What other rules would you apply for civil discourse? I would feel much better if these rules applied equally to everyone rather than being based on your point of view or popularity.


http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/A-Flowchart-to-Help-You-Determine-if-Yoursquore-Having-a-Rational-Discussion.jpg
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:15 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Rubber bullets are supposed to be used on the lower extremities only,

I am unfamiliar with the policies for the use of rubber bullets, but it seems unrealistic to expect police to aim with such precision.


Glennn wrote:
No. Not a riot. It was a protest on his village's land.

Being a protest on village land does not mean it wasn't a riot. Clearly the Israeli soldiers felt threatened enough to employ riot control devices.


Glennn wrote:
And again, she is a minor. If it happened in the U.S., she would have went before a judge, and her parents would have been told where she is being held. Instead, her mother was detained for simply trying to find out where her daughter was being held. And as it is, she has been held for more than three weeks. So, no. Not like the U.S.

Are any human rights organizations filing habeas corpus claims on their behalf in Israeli courts?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:29 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/A-Flowchart-to-Help-You-Determine-if-Yoursquore-Having-a-Rational-Discussion.jpg

This sounds good in theory. But what happens when someone does not believe that they are mistaken (even though they are). They may be willing to modify their views if they are convinced they are wrong, but since they are honestly not convinced of their error they refuse to modify their views.

Or what happens when someone believes that the other party is mistaken (when the other party is in fact correct). They might have an unreasonable (albeit good faith) expectation for the other party to modify their views and then get frustrated when it doesn't happen.

Is there much difference between "a sermon" and "a discussion with someone who is 100% correct"? Note that someone who is 100% correct will never have to modify their views.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:34 pm
@oralloy,
Box #1 says "Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?"

Even a person who is 100% correct all the time, if they are logical, MUST envision something that could change their mind, for example, a new piece of data that refutes a previously held belief.


layman
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:40 pm
@maporsche,
Mark Twain wrote:
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 01:01 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Quote:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/A-Flowchart-to-Help-You-Determine-if-Yoursquore-Having-a-Rational-Discussion.jpg

You know what that makes me think? It was made by someone "on the spectrum".
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 01:53 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I am unfamiliar with the policies for the use of rubber bullets

I know.
Quote:
it seems unrealistic to expect police to aim with such precision.

It seems unrealistic to expect that the IDF would shoot a kid in the face in the first place.
Quote:
Being a protest on village land does not mean it wasn't a riot.

And who do you imagine they were rioting against? Each other?
Quote:
Clearly the Israeli soldiers felt threatened enough to employ riot control devices.

And I've clearly shown you that the IDF needn't feel threatened before shooting unarmed, tied up, and blindfolded Palestinians. Here, have a look for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qY92YOlvS4
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 02:00 pm
@Glennn,
You seem very passionate in your condemnation of Israelis, eh, Glenn?

Quote:
And I've clearly shown you that the IDF needn't feel threatened before shooting unarmed, tied up, and blindfolded Palestinians.


With a rubber bullet, no less, you claim, eh?

How do you feel about Palestinians boarding jewish school buses packed with children with a suicide bomb strapped to their sorry ass, and blowing them all up, I wonder? Probably not as bad as do you about a jew shooting a Palestinian in the leg with a rubber bullet, eh?
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 03:43 pm
@layman,
Quote:
You seem very passionate in your condemnation of Israelis, eh, Glenn?

Israelis? No. You're hearing what hasn't been said. I'm talking about the IDF.
Quote:
With a rubber bullet, no less, you claim, eh?

Yeah, a rubber bullet. What's your point?
Quote:
Probably not as bad as do you about a jew shooting a Palestinian in the leg with a rubber bullet, eh?

So this is your way of calling me an anti Semite? If you want to debate the issue and take the side of the Zionists, feel free. I'm going to get a haircut right now, but I'll be back to help you air your thoughts if you want.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 04:10 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
It seems unrealistic to expect that the IDF would shoot a kid in the face in the first place.

If riot control devices are being fired into a crowd of rioters, it is very realistic to expect that people in the crowd might be struck in all sorts of random places.


Glennn wrote:
And who do you imagine they were rioting against? Each other?

Who knows. Does it matter?


Glennn wrote:
And I've clearly shown you that the IDF needn't feel threatened before shooting unarmed, tied up, and blindfolded Palestinians. Here, have a look for yourself:

That was a completely different incident. Do you have any evidence that the incident that you are speaking of was of a similar nature?
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 05:11 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
If riot control devices are being fired into a crowd of rioters, it is very realistic to expect that people in the crowd might be struck in all sorts of random places.

It was a demonstration. You keep talking past that point. It was on the land of the village where the people lived. Did you hear of any riots that had to be broken up and put down? Any evidence to that effect?
Quote:
Who knows. Does it matter?

Not really, because it was a demonstration. Remember?
Quote:
That was a completely different incident. Do you have any evidence that the incident that you are speaking of was of a similar nature?

Yeah. The kid wasn't arrested for doing anything wrong, was he? No he wasn't. But he was shot in the face anyway; much like the guy in the video was shot in the leg after being bound and blindfolded. Was he a threat? Do you think?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 05:30 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
It was a demonstration. You keep talking past that point. It was on the land of the village where the people lived. Did you hear of any riots that had to be broken up and put down? Any evidence to that effect?

The only thing I know about this event is what I've read in your posts.

Clearly whatever the crowd was doing, the Israeli soldiers felt threatened enough to employ riot control measures against them.


Glennn wrote:
Yeah. The kid wasn't arrested for doing anything wrong, was he? No he wasn't. But he was shot in the face anyway;

Police and soldiers do not employ riot control devices as a punishment for wrongdoing.

Riot control devices are used to push back against unruly mobs.


Glennn wrote:
much like the guy in the video was shot in the leg after being bound and blindfolded.

It sounds quite different. The impression that I'm getting is that Israeli forces employed riot control measures against a crowd that they felt threatened by.


Glennn wrote:
Was he a threat? Do you think?

The Israeli soldiers must have deemed the crowd a threat since they employed riot-control devices against them.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 05:42 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Clearly whatever the crowd was doing, the Israeli soldiers felt threatened enough to employ riot control measures against them.

So you haven't heard of any riot that had to be put down. Yeah, I couldn't find anything about it either.
Quote:
Riot control devices are used to push back against unruly mobs.

Quote:
The Israeli soldiers must have deemed the crowd a threat since they employed riot-control devices against them.

They were demonstrating in their own village.
Still waiting to hear any news about an unruly mob that prompted the IDF to shoot the kid in the face.

The point of showing you a video of the IDF shooting a tied and blindfolded guy in the leg was to show you that the IDF doesn't need to feel threatened to just let someone have it.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 05:51 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
So you haven't heard of any riot that had to be put down. Yeah, I couldn't find anything about it either.

I've heard that there was an event where Israeli soldiers felt threatened enough by a group that they employed riot control measures against them.


Glennn wrote:
Still waiting to hear any news about an unruly mob that prompted the IDF to shoot the kid in the face.

Clearly the soldiers felt threatened enough by the crowd that they felt they needed to employ riot control measures against them.


Glennn wrote:
The point of showing you a video of the IDF shooting a tied and blindfolded guy in the leg was to show you that the IDF doesn't need to feel threatened to just let someone have it.

That was a different event. From your description, it sounds to me like this other crowd was not bound and blindfolded and already in custody.


Glennn wrote:
They were demonstrating in their own village.

That doesn't mean they were no threat to the Israeli soldiers.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 06:25 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I've heard that there was an event where Israeli soldiers felt threatened enough by a group that they employed riot control measures against them.

Where and when was this? Cite your source.
Quote:
Clearly the soldiers felt threatened enough by the crowd that they felt they needed to employ riot control measures against them.

Your evidence that the IDF felt threatened is the fact that they shot a kid in the face. You're disregarding the fact that no IDF was harmed during this demonstration. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it.
Quote:
That was a different event. From your description, it sounds to me like this other crowd was not bound and blindfolded and already in custody.

Because it was a different event does not take away from the fact that the bound and blindfolded man was shot in the leg despite not being a threat to the IDF. I don't know what crowd you're referring to that was already in custody because the demonstrators were in their own village.
Quote:
That doesn't mean they were no threat to the Israeli soldiers.

Again, they were demonstating in their own village. What was the IDF doing there in the first place?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 07:13 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Where and when was this? Cite your source.

You tell me. YOU are my source.


Glennn wrote:
Your evidence that the IDF felt threatened is the fact that they shot a kid in the face.

Well, the fact that they felt compelled to use riot control measures against the crowd.


Glennn wrote:
You're disregarding the fact that no IDF was harmed during this demonstration.

That is the purpose of riot control devices. They are meant to prevent security forces from being harmed.


Glennn wrote:
Because it was a different event does not take away from the fact that the bound and blindfolded man was shot in the leg despite not being a threat to the IDF.

True.

But being a completely different event does mean that it has nothing to do with this other event that we're talking about.


Glennn wrote:
I don't know what crowd you're referring to that was already in custody because the demonstrators were in their own village.

I'm talking about the crowd that you are complaining about having been fired upon with riot control devices.

It sounds to me like this crowd was NOT already in custody.


Glennn wrote:
Again, they were demonstating in their own village. What was the IDF doing there in the first place?

I don't know nearly enough details to answer this question.

I can speculate though that this took place in Area B, which is fully under the control of the Israeli military.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 07:14 pm
Well I’m going to unfollow this Israeli thread now. Not sure how we stumbled upon riots and rubber bullets
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 07:32 pm
@maporsche,
This thread was a failure
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 08:10 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
You tell me. YOU are my source.

He was shot in the village of Nabi Saleh. There was a protest taking place there. I can find nothing to substantiate your claim that the IDF felt threatened enough to shoot a kid in the face. Can you?
Quote:
That is the purpose of riot control devices. They are meant to prevent security forces from being harmed.

There is no report of demonstrators threatening IDF soldiers. If you believe that they did, then produce something to that effect.
Quote:
But being a completely different event does mean that it has nothing to do with this other event that we're talking about.

Of course it does. You are under the impression that IDF soldiers need to feel threatened before shooting at people. The video I provided shows a bound and blindfolded man being shot in the leg, showing you up close and personal that no threat is necessary to justify such a thing. There are other examples of that kind of behavior from the IDF, which I could provide you with.
Quote:
It sounds to me like this crowd was NOT already in custody.

None of them were taken into custody. And why should they have been? They were taking part in a demonstration in there own village.
Quote:
I don't know nearly enough details to answer this question.

Yes, I know.
Quote:
I can speculate though that this took place in Area B, which is fully under the control of the Israeli military.

I guess that you're trying to make the point that protests are illegal in occupied Palestine. The village is called Nabi Saleh. I will see what I can find out concerning whether or not it is in area B. I will also see what I can find out concerning the right to protest.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 08:14 pm
@maxdancona,
I think glennn and oralloy are somewhat in agreement that shooting people is uncivil behavior. That's my takeaway, any way.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Lola at the Coffee House - Question by Lola
JIM NABORS WAS GOY? - Question by farmerman
OBVIOUS TROLL - Question by Setanta
Surgery--Again - Discussion by Roberta
LOST & MISPLACED A2K people. - Discussion by msolga
Soon to be world traveler, Dog willing! - Discussion by Stacey the red baron
The Bah! Humbug! Christmas thread. - Discussion by msolga
A good cry on the train - Discussion by Joe Nation
Why all the Decryptonite stuff? - Question by Tes yeux noirs
Oh rest ye, Merry Gentleman - Discussion by jespah
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 11/30/2021 at 04:22:05