9
   

What rules would You set for civil behavior?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 01:43 pm
@hightor,
Maybe they should be shown to be false, but do you think that's actually happening? If these beliefs has successfully been shown to be false you wouldn't have a racist president sitting in the Whitehouse calling African nations shithole countries and neo Nazis marching through the streets.

What has in fact happened is that abhorrent beliefs have been normalised, made respectable even, being a racist is no different from holding a particular viewpoint on how local government should be financed. Not only that you've given these people a platform from which to preach hate. They used to keep their heads down, now they're emboldened.

What you're saying sounds very much like the triumph of hope over experience.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 02:02 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Maybe they should be shown to be false, but do you think that's actually happening?

Some of those types are too ignorant to even realize when they've been proven wrong; they're not going to change. But in the limited universe of A2K liberals can strive to present clear, factually-based arguments which may find their way into real world interactions.
Quote:
What you're saying sounds very much like the triumph of hope over experience.

Could be but I'm pretty cynical — I think of it more as exposing stupidity and shining a light on intolerance. You know, dutifully fighting the good fight at any opportunity.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 02:17 pm
@izzythepush,
Let's be clear here. Izzy has a very simplistic view of the world. People who agree with Izzy are good people. The rest of the world are Nazis. Once Izzy defines "the other" as Nazi he can justify his own extreme behavior. He isn't acting like a jerk. In his mind he is fighting Nazis.

Let's talk about what makes someone a Nazi. The Nazi ideology was evil because they wanted to literally kill every member of a race of people. It wasn't that they criticized the State of Israel or thought that Asians do better on IQ tests. The Nazi's had a plan to round of a race of people and put them into death camps. And that is what they did.

You should not call someone a Nazi unless one of two things is true.

- They advocate rounding up a race of people to exterminate them.
- They self-identify as a Nazi.

You don't become a Nazi by

- Criticizing the State of Israel
- Voting for Donald Trump.
- Suggesting the IQ is based on race.
- Opposing immigration
- Disagreeing with Izzy.

This is a nasty slur that Izzy uses to denigrate people with whom he disagrees.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 02:33 pm
@hightor,
I think you're just giving them a platform. I shun them, ignore them, they're not worth anyone's time.
maxdancona
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 04:11 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I think you're just giving them a platform. I shun them, ignore them, they're not worth anyone's time.


That's simply untrue. I have never seen you ignore anyone who disagrees with you. If you did, Able2know would be a nicer place.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:45 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
By the way, you got a link to that cheese-eater thread? I aint never seen that one, that I recall, eh?

https://able2know.org/topic/438796-1
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:46 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Max has a persecution complex. He keeps banging on about some clique or another, and a supposed 'in crowd,' that's he's not part of. He's paranoid, up to the point he believes said 'in crowd,' conspire against him.

It's all bollocks, A2K is made up of individuals, some of whom are friends, but there's no coordination.

There may not be coordination, but Max's description of the behavior is accurate.


izzythepush wrote:
Take Oralloy, he is spouting Nazi ideology in that he wants to lock up all political opponents to Trump. That fascist **** would get short shrift on a centrist, let alone a left leaning, discussion board and would result in expulsion, but it doesn't on A2K.

Nonsense. Removing all the liberals to Guantanamo has nothing to do with them disagreeing with Trump. It has to do with their outrageous behavior.
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:55 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

I didn’t mean that she has seniority, I was thinking more along the line that in 15+ years Roberta has been a gem. I guess that’s kinda seniority, but she has never been insulting or crass. Roberta is a class act, I suppose I thought everyone knows that....


Aw shucks, glitter. Thanks for the gem remark. I'm a fan or emeralds.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 05:59 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
And I think part of the reason is that, while a predictable and repetitive espouser of extreme right-wing views, oralloy still manages to conduct his arguments without resorting to name-calling and personal insults. That's all I'm asking for.

Extreme right wing?

All I ask is that the Democrats respect the Second Amendment and stop conducting McCarthyist witch hunts.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 06:09 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
If I state that all members of some particular ethnic group or political party should be imprisoned I just make myself look out of touch — I've presented a useful cudgel which can be picked up by anyone who disagrees with me and used against me.

They can try to use it against me.

Good luck to them. They'll need all the luck they can get if they want to successfully argue against my position.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 06:15 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
If these beliefs has successfully been shown to be false you wouldn't have a racist president sitting in the Whitehouse calling African nations shithole countries and neo Nazis marching through the streets.

Trump is hardly racist.

There may well be a handful of African states that are not shitholes, but most of them are. I used to think South Africa was a pretty good place when it was run by that Mandela fellow, but lately they've been openly supporting war criminals. Plus their lawlessness regarding Pistorius is reprehensible.

America is a free country. I realize that Europe has no experience with freedom, but part of freedom involves letting people conduct neo-nazi marches if that is what they choose to do. It also involves cracking down on liberals who use violence to try to silence neo-nazis.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 06:20 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
You don't become a Nazi by
- Criticizing the State of Israel

I'm not sure that I agree. Part of Nazism involved falsely accusing Jews of horrible atrocities. Falsely accusing Israel of horrible atrocities seems quite similar to this.

In particular, anyone who accuses Israel of apartheid is someone who I would consider a neo-nazi.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 07:50 pm
@oralloy,
But certainly, raiding a family's home in the middle of the night and taking away a 16 year old girl who slapped an Israeli soldier after her 15 year old cousin had been shot in the face that day for being part of a protest cannot be viewed as anything like a democratic process. And when the mother went to an Israeli detention center to find out where her daughter was being held, she, too, was detained. How is it that I cannot criticize such a thing without being labeled a neo Nazi?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 07:58 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
But certainly, raiding a family's home in the middle of the night and taking away a 16 year old girl who slapped an Israeli soldier after her 15 year old cousin had been shot in the face that day for being part of a protest cannot be viewed as anything like a democratic process.

Sounds more like a police action (arresting a criminal for assault). A democratic process would involve elections.


Glennn wrote:
And when the mother went to an Israeli detention center to find out where her daughter was being held, she, too, was detained. How is it that I cannot criticize such a thing without being labeled a neo Nazi?

If you are fair in your criticism you should be OK. The problem comes from grossly unfair criticism.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 08:07 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Sounds more like a police action (arresting a criminal for assault).

Well, n0. A police action (arrest) would involve arresting her after committing a crime. But that's not what happened. The Israeli forces waited until just before dawn of the next day to raid the home and take her to an unknown location. Also, you are not speaking to the shooting of her cousin in the face that day for being part of a protest.
Quote:
The problem comes from grossly unfair criticism.

But mentioning the unjust action of detaining a parent who wants to know where her 16 year old daughter has been taken is not a grossly unfair criticism; it is just a fact.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 08:27 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Well, n0. A police action (arrest) would involve arresting her after committing a crime. But that's not what happened. The Israeli forces waited until just before dawn of the next day to raid the home and take her to an unknown location.

You described her as having assaulted a police officer. I think that would be a crime.

I'd imagine that a judge would take into account that she was upset over the death of her cousin and be lenient. But I think if she slapped a police officer in the US that way she'd end up before a judge as well.

EDIT: I guess I'm assuming that the cousin died?


Glennn wrote:
Also, you are not speaking to the shooting of her cousin in the face that day for being part of a protest.

I know very little about the incident. I'm not sure what to say.

I do know that the Israeli military shoots protesters in the head with .50 BMG sniper rifles when they feel threatened by those protesters. I assume that this was such an incident.


Glennn wrote:
But mentioning the unjust action of detaining a parent who wants to know where her 16 year old daughter has been taken is not a grossly unfair criticism; it is just a fact.

I have not said that your mention of the parent's detention was unfair.

I am not nearly familiar enough with the case to offer informed commentary regarding justness or unjustness.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 09:11 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
You described her as having assaulted a police officer. I think that would be a crime.

If that was a crime, then what do you call her cousin being shot in the face by an Israeli soldier while protesting on his own village's land?
Quote:
But I think if she slapped a police officer in the US that way she'd end up before a judge as well.

But she is a minor. If it happened in the U.S., she would have went before a judge, and her parents would have been told where she is being held. Instead, her mother was detained for simply trying to find out where her daughter was being held. As it is, she has been held for more than three weeks.
Quote:
I guess I'm assuming that the cousin died?

No. A rubber bullet entered his head under his nose and got lodged in his skull. He underwent a six-hour operation and spent a week in an induced coma, and cannot go outside for the next few months because he now lacks bone in part of his skull.
Quote:
I do know that the Israeli military shoots protesters in the head with .50 BMG sniper rifles when they feel threatened by those protesters. I assume that this was such an incident.

He was protesting on his own village land. Here is a video of a similar incident when a Palestinian protester was shot by the IDF. It is obvious that the soldier who shot him in the leg was not being threatened in any way since the protester was both bound and blindfolded at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qY92YOlvS4
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 11:03 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
If that was a crime, then what do you call her cousin being shot in the face by an Israeli soldier while protesting on his own village's land?

With a rubber bullet? Sounds like riot control.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Tue 16 Jan, 2018 11:58 pm
@Roberta,
Roberta wrote:

glitterbag wrote:

I didn’t mean that she has seniority, I was thinking more along the line that in 15+ years Roberta has been a gem. I guess that’s kinda seniority, but she has never been insulting or crass. Roberta is a class act, I suppose I thought everyone knows that....


Aw shucks, glitter. Thanks for the gem remark. I'm a fan or emeralds.


Me too Roberta, emeralds, tanzanite,aqua marine, ruby, and sapphire. Oops, I forgot to mention diamonds.....they go well with everything.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2018 09:29 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
With a rubber bullet?

Rubber bullets are supposed to be used on the lower extremities only, as demonstrated by the IDF soldier who shot a bound and blindfolded Palestinian protester in the leg in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qY92YOlvS4
____________________________________________

And here is something from CBS News concerning "rubber" bullets:

"The study, published this week in The Lancet medical journal, examined the effects of rubber-coated bullets used by the Israeli police force during riots by Israeli Arabs in northern and central Israel in early October 2000.

"Those bullets are in fact made of metal encased in a rubber shell, and are different from the original rubber bullets first used in 1970 by the British in Northern Ireland."
Quote:
Sounds like riot control.

No. Not a riot. It was a protest on his village's land.
____________________________________________

And again, she is a minor. If it happened in the U.S., she would have went before a judge, and her parents would have been told where she is being held. Instead, her mother was detained for simply trying to find out where her daughter was being held. And as it is, she has been held for more than three weeks. So, no. Not like the U.S.
 

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