French hyper-sensitivity

An excerpt--

Speaking to the BBC, Tom Ridge said the US did not condone the use of torture to extract information from terrorists.

But he said that under an "extreme set" of hypothetical circumstances, such as a nuclear threat, "it could happen".

A spokesman for Mr Ridge said his comments were taken out of context and did not amount to approval of torture.`
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They damn well better use torture or whatever means necessary to stop a nuclear attack on my country. Are you seriously implying you'd let your country be nuked rather than bitch-slap a terrorist to avert a nuclear attack?

Nobody will believe that.

I'm against anything illegal - wether you belive that or not.

And I'm especially against illegal practises by the state, state authorities and/or agencies etc.

There'd certainly be no danger of democrats being killed in any sort of a civil war.

Yuck, what a thought.....

Ah - one notes that some of these people have degenerated to jokes about rape.

Ha ha ha.

Yes - the treatment of asylum seekers in Oz is shocking. Thanks to Lash for raising it. Those of us who have been active in opposing it need all the international support we can get. It is amusing to see the UN's (very reasonable and accurate, in my view) condemnation trotted out by Lash - I thought everything that comes from the UN was anathema to her?

Oddly, we do not seem to feel the need to set up threads mindlessly carrying on about uninvolved countries when confronted on it. Actually, we are more likely to condemn it bitterly ourselves - although the Oz conservative government has, tragically in my view, managed to convince large numbers of people that we will be inundated with illegal boat people should these measures not be taken to discourage tham - loosely tying this to the threat of terrorism.

As has often been stated in various threads here, this disgusting nonesense reached its nadir before the election before last, when the conservative government (which was facing likely defeat) used utterly false allegations that a boatload of asylum seekers had thrown their children overboard in an attempt to be allowed to land to persuade idiots of the evil of these poor folk.

The detention centres have, shockingly in my view, been contracted out to private companies to run.

The behaviour of their untrained, overwhelmed and unskilled staff has caused even this government to cancel a couple of contracts.

In my view, if people are to be imprisoned in this way - and many other countries seem quite able to deal with the problem without this stuff, then, at the very least, the government should take direct responsibility for their management and treatment.

I might add that Amnesty is very involved with this issue - and they are well organised in opposing this policy - should any of you who are as outraged as almost all of the Australians here care to support their campaign.... We would thank you very much for your help.

Now, since my sacred soil has been maligned, boohoo - ought I to set up a thread laughing at New Zealanders and Canadians, because, bless 'em, they don't support our government's behaviour towards illegals - and even, damn them, take some in when we have thrown them out - (including making jokes about the idea of them being raped????!!!!)

Hmmmm - I think not....

This was also a comment interesting to me:

"Looks like you need to clean up the cesspool at your front door before you worry about mine... "

I take it this means that the USA would have to be perfect before....ummmm...well, let us say - invading Iraq to bring democracy and such there? I mean - if we are to ensure our own cesspools are clean, before commenting on those of others, I assume this also includes not invading them until we are squeaky clean ourselves?

Ah, but we are squeaky clean to certain minds, dlowan.

We have, for example, the best health care system in the world. In the world, mind you, it's just that some cannot fathom how to take advantage of it.

Our democracy is in such good shape that only just over half the folks here even participate in it by voting, (I should add something here about how our electoral process is pristine, using the most up to date compiling systems to assure the sanctity of the voting booth, but some may bring up the recent unpleasantness in Ohio and Florida. And we are much more interested here in preserving the sanctity of marriage rather than the vote, but I digress.)

We are the richest country in the world and we intend to make sure that the richest of us stay the richest by lowering their taxes while cutting benefits for the soldiers, airmen sailors and marines who do their bidding.

We are so sure that our system of economics is sufficiently strong that we are now deficit spending ourselves into what could be described as a Mariana Trench of debt and have achieved the lifelong dream of also being the world's greatest debtor. Hey, two mints in one!!

We know that all the American children would understand the reference to the Mariana Trench because we have the greatest education system IN THE WORLD except when conservatives want to knock the teacher's unions then they have to do a sort of yogic-jujitsu perambulation -"our teachers are lousy but our kids know everything.-- except don't mention evolution and ..." .. maybe we should leave this for another time.

What else? Well, we do know better and it's not by instinct or some other of those so-called natural phenoms, no, we know better because we, and we say this as humbly as we can, we are led by God. God talks to our beloved leader sometimes six or seven times a day. Does God talk to your leader that many times a day? We think not.

Top that, oz.

Joe(I'm proud to say that I hear voices too.)Nation

No country is squeaky clean - lol.

Nope, no country is sqeaky clean. So no one should be surprised when their BS is on review.

I agree that Stilly's joke about rape was distasteful.

Actually, his followed yours.

So you will stop supporting US invasion of other countries until all US "cesspools" are cleansed?

And stop attacking other countries whenever your country's BS is challenged?

Thanks Deb, I was going to point that out too. As for the 'methods' of the Australian govt of late, they are going to be accounted for in time. In the USA there is no accountability, none*. That is probably the biggest difference between these nations. The rule of law and a constitutional system (Westminster) to back it up is how Australians do things.....




*

As I said in the post of mine that was deleted by someone, I stated rape wasn't necessary. You are incorrect that I made a joke about rape. My joke was about sluttiness--HOWEVER, Stillwater made a joke about a member of my family being raped. I'm sure his was the one that offended you.

I also said that I would cease attacking other countries when MY country's BS is being discussed as soon as everyone else agrees to play by those rules--but I will continue to go by the same rules as everyone else in the meantime.

Stilly - I do not think that is true at all!!!!!

That was just a weird coment by Bush - and meaningles in my view.

One of the things I admire about the US is that I think they air their dirty linen more quickly and completely than we do.

For instance, the only court challenges to the treatment of illegals (and to be fair, they are not put in detention centres until they are deemed to be NOT refugees - and if they refuse to go back) we have eally able toget up have been around detention of children - which had a favourable result, and was then reversed - dammit!!!! I mean - we ar eable to get up individual challenges to people's detention - but it is LAWFUL - and courts can only decide on the law.

This is different, I think, cos our constitution is so minimalist. The US has that lovely document which enshrines so much enlightenment thinking - ours was an attempt not to offend any states enough to stop them from federating!

Here is where I wish we DID have an international court to which we could take the thing.


Compare this to Abu Ghraib. I think the people going to prison for that are, in a sense, taking the fall for government policy - but it is OUT there - even the stuff about making alleged terror prisoners legal non-people is being challenged - successfully - in US courts!!!!! And the government in the US is being, I think, far more assertively challenged about massaging the intelligence to fit its case for war than bloody Howard is!

Compare this with the nonsense of making bits of Oz "not Oz" - so that illegal immigrants do not have the benefit of having made legal landfall - we seem unable to hallenge that - I mean, the Senate (until now when the damned conservatives have gained control of it) always reversed it, but in the meantime, the government has made us an international disgrace.

Also - being a tall poppy, the US has more international scrutiny/ Who in the world cares about weeny Oz? This is how our government gets away with this stuff!

I think they are being held more accountable. To a standard which I wish we could get happening in Oz. I mean we are trying - but even the governments in whose states the damn detention centres are in cannot affect commonwealth policy - I know, for instance, that my state government has been trying to get all kids out of Woomera/Baxter - the whole time. With no effect!

Edit: Sorry for typos - I am passionate - and at work.

Also Stilly - the people who become incensed when the US is criticized are in a minority - certainly on this board, I think - I would not let their responses make you think that many - if not most - Americans are not ready to listen to crtiticism of their country's policies. And, bless 'em, they challenge them!!! Just as we do - but they seem to have more ability to do so - based, in part, on a more detailed constitution.

"Equitable criticism"
Paul Andrew Bourne, BSc. (Hons) Economics and Demography


The art of language is a tool of communication. By so doing, people unlike the lower animals may utilize implied smbolic generalizations and "body" language as a medium of communication. People are not expecting that to be "right" consistently but that they are pointed to fallacies and inaccuracies within their construct of life. My perception is primarily formed based on the agents of socialization to which I have been introduced within the society to which I reside. As such, tolerance which is taught by each society is to be executed when making for the correction of someone. He/she is expecting to articulate a position and depending on the level of conviction forward a stance thereby.

Therefore, "how can we subjectively argue our perspective position and by so doing label people with delittling jargons?"

This debate should be broaden by forwarding a position, that "are people of a particular orientation highly likely to be boastful? And that "what are the factors responsible for french men social graces and perception of themselves and other individual?"

Let us restart this debate, now!

This is not a debate. It's a series of unfunny punchlines.

You are right, Lash. This isn't even funny. Just outright distastefull. Yeah, I really don't understand why any mention of anything French makes them so hyper-sensitive. It's not like anyone is targeting them with unfounded insults or anything....

You guys are full of it. I laughed aloud when I read Lash's joke, and subconsciously bristled when I read Still's. Only hyper-partisanship could explain finding hers more offensive. You gentle souls should be ashamed of yourselves for the mob-mentality necessary to juxtapose the respective offensiveness. Double-

I am not a big fan of French culture. I have no desire to "defend" them really.

I do, however, find a lot of the vitrol against them uncalled for and will occasionally counter it.

France is a lightning rod because of symbolism that partisans on both sides see in her, and classless partisans will, unsurprisingly, display classless vitrol.

In most cases, I think people are opposing the vitrol more so than defending the object of the attacks.