1
   

Dean to seek chairmanship of Democrats

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 04:52 pm
This bet you all got going seems to me to lack an un-biased judge at the end. It's not like there is an election going on that can be definitive.

If I was betting person I would bet that Dean apologizes before very long. But I am not...
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 04:52 pm
Yeah, I'm sure you've got a pretty good chance of taking my money. <nods>

But you need to answer my question. It's a simple yes or no. Read it carefully again before you answer.

I'm going out to dinner and I'll check back much later this evening. And throw out that wine you're drinking, because I think it's turned into vinegar.

Or send it to Brand X, 'cause he's being too sweet again... Cool
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 04:54 pm
revel wrote:
If I was betting person I would bet that Dean apologizes before very long. But I am not...


Lash and I aren't betting on an apology.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:09 pm
PD--

Good grief. Is this a Rohrshack or something?

We didn't bet on stupid generic gaffes. What he said doesn't meet the standard.

Brand--

WOW. I still can't believe he said it. You would think afterall the crap he said in the election, he would have learned to THINK before he opens his mouth.

My interest in this bet now isn't whether I'll win. Its how many I'll have to choose from.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:13 pm
hey Lash, speaking of gaffes did you see this from yesterday?
When the ranking Democrat on the committee, Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., asked for an estimate on the number of insurgents in Iraq, the secretary said, "
Quote:
I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work
." (He presumably meant to say "intelligence.") Ultimately, Rumsfeld admitted he had estimates at his fingertips.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:14 pm
Poor Rummy.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 11:03 am
Lash wrote:
I was talking about the treatment of blacks by the Democrat party for decades.

They are not placed in positions of authority within the DNC, they aren't treated as the important--almost VITAL demographic they are by the party leadership--they are taken for granted.

Two of the only three blacks that were ever popularly elected to the US Senate were Democrats.

The last two.

(The only black that was ever elected to the Senate for the Republicans was Edward Brooke, in Massachusetts, back in 1966.)

The only black governor ever popularly elected was a Democrat.

The first black presidential candidate in the primaries - and the only one ever to attract significant white support - was a Democrat.

<shrugs>

Yes, the Bush admin did a good job as the first ever US government to appoint blacks to such high-profile positions (Powell, Rice - even if Powell was mostly ignored).

I would expect the Dems to equal or outdo Bush's record the next time they get into power - exactly because of their proven track record in the last half of the 20th century of being consistently ahead of the Republicans in appointing Afro-Americans to political office (see above). I'm sure Obama will get a Rice-type high-profile post, for example. And I'd predict Salazar and/or Richardson will be high-profile Hispanics.

Perhaps Barack will even be the candidate ... Obama vs Rice, now that should give the racists a scare. (Dont think thats gonna happen tho, alas ...)

Lash wrote:
American blacks have had it drilled so deeply in their heads that Republicans want to eat their children--the Democrats have no fear blacks will leave them. So, they go to black churches for a couple of months every four years, sing "We will Overcome", and bag the black vote...

And more evidence of how Lash - and other conservatives with her - view the Afro-American population with much the alienation and condescension that Dean shows when talking about 'Southerners with a Confederate flag on their pick-up'. Incomprehension dominates: how can 88% - I mean, eighty-eight percent - of blacks prefer the other side? How is it possible?

Now a smart politician would take that cue to think, what have we been doing wrong - what is it in our rhetorics, programme, profile that still scares them off even when our actual policies would, we believe at least, make things better for them?

Thats what a smart politician would do. But then there are the true believers. They just dont understand. They look at the estranged demographic as if they're wholly alien, their behavior unexplainable, or at least not possibly driven by reason or choice. I mean, how can those Southern working-class folk not vote for us Dems, if we offer them better working conditions, a decent minimum wage, health insurance? Could it be because of our all too secular rhetorics, our Massachusetts candidates, the utter lack of empathy we showcase with their cultural priorities? Nah, of course not. It must be that they're just sheep, who are all too easily "bagged" by those clever manipulative Karl Rove stooges. Hah! All Bush needs to do is wave the American flag and recite some bits from the Bible, and those Southerners are already taken in, the gullible sods!

Thats how Republicans - as Lash, here - look at Afro-Americans. 88% of them vote Dem? Time after time? Even if we put Mr. Powell in such a nice figurehead position? Could it be because if you look at the Republican Convention in NYC, 90% of the delegates are white? Could it be because we rail against affirmative action when a clear majority of blacks still deem it necessary? Could it be because the justice system we govern over is still twice as likely to convict a Black for the same crime, and on average convicts a Black to one and a half or twice as heavy a punishment for the same crime? Could it be because our politicians and supporters nevertheless keep saying that racism isnt really an issue anymore, and if Afro-Americans dont make it its all their own fault? Could it be because we put someone like Alan Keyes up in a Senate race, when he makes most blacks curl their toes? Could it be ...

Nah. It must just be that those gullible black folk are taken in so easy. You know, all the Dem stooge needs to do is sing "We Shall Overcome" in a Black church, and beeh-hheeeh, there they flock to the candidate. They are so easily persuaded that the Republican "will eat their children", you know, those blacks!

That must be it.

revel wrote:
Like Nimh said, the Black American are not as a group stupid people and I think if things were like you said, they would have caught on a long time ago.

No, Revel - if they havent caught on with what people like Lash know to be the truth, it must be because they are just stupid enough people to let themselves be bagged by the Dems that easily. Must be. Those poor misguided masses.

But no: its the Dems who treat blacks with racist condescension. Gotta remember that.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 11:38 am
nimh wrote:
Lash wrote:
I was talking about the treatment of blacks by the Democrat party for decades.

They are not placed in positions of authority within the DNC, they aren't treated as the important--almost VITAL demographic they are by the party leadership--they are taken for granted.

Two of the only three blacks that were ever popularly elected to the US Senate were Democrats.

The last two.

(The only black that was ever elected to the Senate for the Republicans was Edward Brooke, in Massachusetts, back in 1966.)

The only black governor ever popularly elected was a Democrat.

The first black presidential candidate in the primaries - and the only one ever to attract significant white support - was a Democrat.

<shrugs>


I can see why you're shrugging. You don't have a clue about the difference in the public voting for a demographic group---AND THE PARTY LEADERSHIP BACKING, POLITICKING FOR AND OFFERING A POSITION OF IMPORTANCE IN THE PARTY HIERARCHY to them.

These are two completely different things.



Yes, the Bush admin did a good job as the first ever US government to appoint blacks to such high-profile positions (Powell, Rice - even if Powell was mostly ignored).

I would expect the Dems to equal or outdo Bush's record the next time they get into power - exactly because of their proven track record in the last half of the 20th century of being consistently ahead of the Republicans in appointing Afro-Americans to political office (see above). I'm sure Obama will get a Rice-type high-profile post, for example. And I'd predict Salazar and/or Richardson will be high-profile Hispanics.


Why did the Dems take so long? What does that say to you? (If you can do the math on this without the incredible bias you've shown lately...) If the GOP is so racist, why do they break ALL the barriers toward equality--while the Dems give ALL their plush assignments to whites???
Perhaps Barack will even be the candidate ... Obama vs Rice, now that should give the racists a scare.
Perhaps he may be a candidate? Yeah. Great argument.
Lash wrote:
American blacks have had it drilled so deeply in their heads that Republicans want to eat their children--the Democrats have no fear blacks will leave them. So, they go to black churches for a couple of months every four years, sing "We will Overcome", and bag the black vote...

And more evidence of how Lash - and other conservatives with her - view the Afro-American population with much the alienation and condescension that Dean shows when talking about 'Southerners with a Confederate flag on their pick-up'. Incomprehension dominates: how can 88% - I mean, eighty-eight percent - of blacks prefer the other side? How is it possible?
Good try. Lame, though. I don't condescend to blacks. That was your hero, Howard Dean. Dems have controlled the airwaves and fed everyone the line about the GOP hating blacks for decades. The proof is in the pudding, though...
Now a smart politician would take that cue to think, what have we been doing wrong - what is it in our rhetorics, programme, profile that still scares them off even when our actual policies would, we believe at least, make things better for them?
We know what it is. We're not going to change it. They will have to notice that our policies are for the equality and success of ...Americans...not Americans, as divided into groups based on sex parts and skin color...

Thats what a smart politician would do.

No. That's what someone willing to sell out their soul for votes would do. If you know what you are doing is the right thing for everyone--even if you know others are using your methods against you to widen divisions in the electorate--you don't throw out what you believe in to curry fake favor--at least if you're not a DEMOCRAT, you don't do that...


But then there are the true believers. They just dont understand. They look at the estranged demographic as if they're wholly alien, their behavior unexplainable, not possibly driven by reason or choice.

Is this your opinion? I think you're the one who doesn't understand. Haven't you heard blacks talk about how they are used by the Democrats??? Don't you think they have a right to their opinions...? Or, perhaps you think they couldn't possibly be driven by reason or choice...?I

I mean, how can those Southern working-class folk not vote for us Dems, if we offer them better working conditions, a decent minimum wage, health insurance? Could it be because of our all too secular rhetorics, our Massachusetts candidates, the utter lack of empathy we showcase with their cultural priorities? Nah, of course not. It must be that they're just sheep, who are all too easily "bagged" by those clever manipulative Karl Rove stooges. Hah! All Bush needs to do is wave the American flag and recite some bits from the Bible, and those Southerners are already taken in, the gullible sods!

Sort of painting yourself into a corner. A lot more of the white Southern demographic vote Dem. than black voters voter GOP.... Have you heard white Southerners complain that they are used and excused by the GOP? I don't think I've EVER heard that. It just doesn't compare.
Thats how Republicans - as Lash, here - seem to look at Afro-Americans. 88% of them vote Dem? Time after time? Even if we put Mr. Powell in such a nice figurehead position? Could it be because if you look at the Republican Convention in NYC, 90% of the delegates are white? Could it be because we rail against affirmative action when a clear majority of blacks still deem it necessary?

Likely. And, if we were expedient--we would change that. But, we're not.
Could it be because the justice system we govern over is still twice as likely to convict a Black for the same crime, and on average convicts a Black to one and a half or twice as heavy a punishment for the same crime?

Could it be that, as of today, Democrats live under the same system of laws as the rest of us. I don't think you'll pin the judicial system on the GOP...

Could it be because our politicians and supporters nevertheless keep saying that racism isnt really an issue anymore, and if Afro-Americans dont make it its all their own fault?
Link, please. It is LESS an issue, and personal effort DOES make a difference. Talk about paternalism... I suppose the poor, stupid blacks cain't do nuthin' fer theirselfes...? They have the same ability as I do. Do they have the same ability as YOU? I'm with Cosby on this issue. Is he wrong?

Could it be because we put someone like Alan Keyes up in a Senate race, when he makes most blacks curl their toes? Could it be ...
Alan Keyes curls most people's toes. The Dems have put clowns up, as well.

Nah. It must just be that those gullible black folk are taken in so easy. You know, all the Dem stooge needs to do is sing "We Shall Overcome" in a Black church, and beeh-hheeeh, there they flock to the candidate. They are so easily persuaded that the Republican "will eat their children", you know, those blacks!
The GOP HAS been demonized in the black community. Do you doubt it?


revel wrote:
Like Nimh said, the Black American are not as a group stupid people and I think if things were like you said, they would have caught on a long time ago.

No, Revel - if they havent caught on with what people like Lash know to be the truth, it must be because they are just stupid enough people to let themselves be bagged by the Dems that easily. Must be. Those poor misguided masses.

No, Revel. It has been widely written and discussed that you are ostracized in the black community for voting for--or talking positively about the Republican party. This is a fact. I'm speaking the fact.

I advocate blacks at least taking an unbiased look at the GOP, instead of being told they don't have any option ouside of the Democrats.

They do have an option.

That seems to scare the **** out of some...
:wink:
But no: its the Dems who treat blacks with condescension.


Well. Finally, something we agree on.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 12:26 am
Democrats: Good little progressives, incapable of change.
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 11:54 am
Just:

Actaully, IMHO, Dean signals a change in Progressives.

They realize that they need to put energy into getting people in power that will listen to them!
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 11:59 am
Why do all you who decry the Democratic Blacks' as having a lockstep endorsement of the Dems seem to assume that they do so prior to observation of the GOP? Is it barely possible that a lot of us have tried to look for reasons to support the GOP, without success?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:35 pm
It is possible that some have. And, it is possible they may have had good reason to do so in the past.

I think the GOP has improved---and I hope some will look again.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:45 pm
NeoGuin wrote:
Just:

Actaully, IMHO, Dean signals a change in Progressives.

They realize that they need to put energy into getting people in power that will listen to them!
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 02:59 pm
Just:

1. This is kinda a new movement for many of the people involved.

2. I think "Pro-Choice" is the best term. But I fear many in "Pro-Life" camp are merely "Anti-Abortion".

Making this distinction would be a good start for the Dean-led DNC, IMHO.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 03:01 pm
I don't think there's any way you can say someone is against the act of aborting a child--that makes it sound bad...conversely, of course...there is really no way to make abortion sound appealing, IMO.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 07:10 am
Regarding the abortion thing, I think Dean is right. Maybe he will get some of the democrats who are not pro-choice (except in medical emergencies) a chance to distinguish themselves and then maybe people will not automatically think voting for a democrat means voting for abortion. I think it is misleading when there are probably just as many moderate republicans who are pro-choice.
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 10:37 am
Revel:

I will explain why I believe "Pro-Choice" is the best way to describe the Democrats stand and how it can be used to show how what the GOP's stance isn't really "pro-life".
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 10:47 am
That would be quite a feat, neo, since the very basis or the pro-life movement is to keep someone from killing babies.

It is pro-life, in every essence of the word.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 11:11 am
I think it is more accurately "pro-babies". I can think of at least one other essence of the word life that is supported by the availability of abortions to women who need them.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Feb, 2005 12:47 pm
I was afraid that the Democrats might learn something from the last election and make a better showing next time. It is clear that my concerns were premature. I think the selection of Dean is a fabulous decision, and Dean's interpretation of the recent massive election loss as being due to Democrats' failure to stick to their left wing positions is a fabulous decision. I can probably sleep peacefully knowing that the Democrats will continue to self-destruct for many wonderful years to come.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 01/04/2025 at 01:20:07