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Do I hate my job, or do I just hate work?

 
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 10:53 pm
Didn't you see that post I linked to? I was thinking of buying a truck and buying a bread, potato chip, vending, Pepsi, or some other kind of delivery route. But I'm not sure yet.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 10:54 pm
The only thing I'm absolutely certain of is that it won't be in a corporate environment, and it will be much more of a get-your-hands-dirty, active kind of job.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:08 pm
Oh! I didn't really read the post http://www.borge.diesal.de/oh.gif

Well, the problem with these jobs is, that they're mostly
low paying and also physically strenuous and competitive.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:16 pm
Yep, that's true. But not all of them. My dad and brother are contractors for the post office in Rochester. They pick up mail from the main hub and deliver it to all the town post offices. Definitely not physically demanding, and they make good money.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:17 pm
Plus, I don't mind a little physical labor.
0 Replies
 
graffiti
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:19 pm
kickycan wrote:
The only thing I'm absolutely certain of is that it won't be in a corporate environment, and it will be much more of a get-your-hands-dirty, active kind of job.


kickycan wrote:
Plus, I don't mind a little physical labor.


Have you considered the porn industry? Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:22 pm
I'm camera-shy.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:26 pm
Yes, I get it. Five hundred something a month. Whoopee.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:27 pm
er, less than my mortgage payment.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:29 pm
How are you going to live on 500 Dollars ossobuco?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:48 pm
Oh, hey, thanks for the completely bald question - I don't think I can. And how are you today?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 12 Jan, 2005 11:51 pm
Sorry, don't mean to be rude. Tis a puzzlement.
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 12:19 am
I work, mostly from habit. Never seem to be able to cover the bills, never know what to do with myself on days-off either.

For the record my rental is less than 500 a month (Australian $$$$$$). I figure I could make it on Soc Security, but I'd go bug-f#ck in less than two weeks. So work = good habit.

But, as we have discussed in another Kicky thread, by Christ I have hated some of my bosses and fellow 'workers' with a vengeance. Maybe I just need stronger pills or sumfing....
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 05:46 am
kickycan wrote:
What about you, Nimh? What's your take on this? What do you do for work?

Office job. Fascinating subject ... well, I know it is, deep down. Just don't feel it. Seriously exasperated.

I know that I should like it - that I should consider myself pretty lucky: its super-informal, people are enthusiastic (it's an idealistic thing), the topic interests me ... yet I hate it, and feel completely trapped.

The obvious way out would be a "better" job of course, same line of work but elsewhere, with a different boss, perhaps less bullshit networking and more of a concrete assignment thing ... or a slightly more concrete topic ... yet at the same time I cant help wondering whether I'm cut out for any of this at all. My boss, in the end-of-year-evaluation, explained what I could do to use my capabilities to "move up", and while smiling politely at him inside I was screaming "what if I don't WANT to move UP!!??".

I hate the office lingo, the project talk bull, the whole ... castles-in-the-air thing. The intangibility of it all. I feel like I'm wasting my life, and loathe myself for the cheerful bla-bla I spout at meetings, even when I know its not actually all bla-bla at all, it's just inside I feel like it is, which says more about my state of mind than the work I guess. Well OK, perhaps it says something about both. My allergy to the office language/culture thing is irrationally fierce tho. When the other day some people sat next to me in the train and started having one of those work discussions about co-ordination this, outreach that, I physically felt sick and I had to get up and move down to another seat. And if my problem is with that thing, per se, just moving jobs within the field might just make things worse. (And I just had an offer for a job interview, abroad, so thats a serious question - do I want to give up my home, plants, my few friends, to go so far for something that might just put me in the exact same problem - but more acutely so, having to prove myself and all? (I mean, the job is also actually more concrete and all - but then again the organisation is more corporate..))

Yet what is the alternative? I'm seriously jealous when I read about your dad driving mail from the main post office to the little villages/towns around. That would be so totally OK for me now. Or when I hear of my friend's friend who has her own biological farm (though I couldnt stand getting up that early). I yearn for something concrete, practical, no-nonsense, and void of all those pretensions and vacuity of yet another project proposal to bring together partnerships of transnational actors to promote intercultural competences and facilitate the exchange of good practice on the empowerment of ... whatever. Yet at the same time I'm afraid that, in reality, if I really were to become, say, a furniture mover like you've been (that caught my attention for a moment, before I remembered I have the physical strength of an endangered bird), I might become numbingly bored for the lack of a challenge. Or at least would over time, later on in life, and then not have the chance anymore to go back to the opportunities I guess I formally have now in this line of work.

In short, I'm stuck. But I dream of being a stained glass setter or mosaic maker or bookbinder ...

... then realise all those jobs are on the verge of extinction.

How old are you again, Kicky? I'm 33 ...
dupre
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 06:50 am
nimh, you should be a writer! That was very clever.

I'd love to post ... but ... I have to go to work now!

I'll be back.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 09:26 am
ossobuco wrote:
Oh, hey, thanks for the completely bald question - I don't think I can. And how are you today?


Sorry osso, that was an insensitive question http://www.borge.diesal.de/oh.gif

---

Actually, I like what I'm doing - maybe because I work for myself.
There are aggravating days too but in general I enjoy it.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 10:47 am
I think I've found it hard to have only a work life and a 'social' life. I've always wanted more, to develop interests of my own. That's why I took classes in studio art, and probably underlies my extravagant enthusiasm for learning about italy and through that more about history in general.
I've always had enthusiasms like this; I was interested in Mexican history for a while, and back when I was a teen, the history of medicine.

So I've gone around being frustrated that I haven't really had time to fully explore these enthusiasms - at the same time I've felt that to make one of these enthusiasms my work life, if I could, would be to start to kill the enthusiasm. Then the things I get a kick out of would become things I ought to do, must do.

This all turns into a cyclical process....


On UPS - my ex did furniture delivery with them in a special unit that did just furniture for a few department stores. It was hard work, paid fairly well, and there was a lot of camaraderie, to hear him tell about it. I remember that some guys had problems from years of riding in the trucks, something about kidney pain (not from not peeing, but from the truck riding.)

On lab medicine -
I did both research and clinical lab work. I did love the research work for quite a while, even while I was actually doing it, though not every project or associate was terrific.

I changed in my last five years of med work to a clinical lab that was looking for someone to help set it up, and did that to have more time to ... do my own projects. That turned out to be a burn-out job - a lot of all-day pressure to get stuff out, and no window (literally) to the outside world - and that burnout triggered my switch to study landscape architecture, a field that I was probably most interested in when I was in school studying it.

So... I coulda-shoulda left well enough alone.

Landscape architecture practice is a mix of it being satisfying to do design work, and some difficulty to maintain a practice. The field often compresses during times of construction recession, like in the early eighties, and the early nineties. Whole swaths of folks will be layed off. At its best the field is not very remunerative. And at it's best, when one has lots of projects, then there is lots of pressure to get work out, with potential all-nighters to do the drawings. Which, as you get older, you feel less like doing. So you try to avoid piling projects on. Anyway, one can feel trapped in all that too.
But what is best about the field is the use of one's creativity, and seeing that turn out to be something people live in and with.

I have had periodic cravings to just work in a book store. Or just own a book store. The grass is always greener..
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 01:48 pm
nimh wrote:
I cant help wondering whether I'm cut out for any of this at all. My boss, in the end-of-year-evaluation, explained what I could do to use my capabilities to "move up", and while smiling politely at him inside I was screaming "what if I don't WANT to move UP!!??".



I have actually asked that question to my boss before. I'm sure it was the wrong thing to say, but I've never been good at holding back from telling any boss my true feelings. He told me that it was fine if I just wanted to do my work and not move up, but he is a pretty down-to-earth boss, actually.

Once, at another job, we had private meetings with our managers having to do with employee morale and how we thought we could improve it. When my boss asked me how I felt about my job, I told her that I have no feelings for it either way, and that I look at it as a business transaction--I work, you pay me--and nothing more. I should have known back then that I wouldn't be happy in a corporate environment.

nimh wrote:
I hate the office lingo, the project talk bull, the whole ... castles-in-the-air thing. The intangibility of it all. I feel like I'm wasting my life, and loathe myself for the cheerful bla-bla I spout at meetings, even when I know its not actually all bla-bla at all, it's just inside I feel like it is, which says more about my state of mind than the work I guess. Well OK, perhaps it says something about both. My allergy to the office language/culture thing is irrationally fierce tho. When the other day some people sat next to me in the train and started having one of those work discussions about co-ordination this, outreach that, I physically felt sick and I had to get up and move down to another seat. And if my problem is with that thing, per se, just moving jobs within the field might just make things worse. (And I just had an offer for a job interview, abroad, so thats a serious question - do I want to give up my home, plants, my few friends, to go so far for something that might just put me in the exact same problem - but more acutely so, having to prove myself and all? (I mean, the job is also actually more concrete and all - but then again the organisation is more corporate..))

Yet what is the alternative? I'm seriously jealous when I read about your dad driving mail from the main post office to the little villages/towns around. That would be so totally OK for me now. Or when I hear of my friend's friend who has her own biological farm (though I couldnt stand getting up that early). I yearn for something concrete, practical, no-nonsense, and void of all those pretensions and vacuity of yet another project proposal to bring together partnerships of transnational actors to promote intercultural competences and facilitate the exchange of good practice on the empowerment of ... whatever. Yet at the same time I'm afraid that, in reality, if I really were to become, say, a furniture mover like you've been (that caught my attention for a moment, before I remembered I have the physical strength of an endangered bird), I might become numbingly bored for the lack of a challenge. Or at least would over time, later on in life, and then not have the chance anymore to go back to the opportunities I guess I formally have now in this line of work.

In short, I'm stuck. But I dream of being a stained glass setter or mosaic maker or bookbinder ...

... then realise all those jobs are on the verge of extinction.

How old are you again, Kicky? I'm 33 ...


I'm 37. You brought up a lot of great points. Those jobs like furniture moving, driving a truck, etc...they aren't glamourous, but you do feel a sense of being directly connected to your paycheck each week. There is something very satisfying about the fact that you can immediately see the value of your work. When you work in an office, you don't get that...at least I don't.

And the business lingo...this is one of the most aggravating things about the corporate world. What is it about that business language that just grates on me like sandpaper on an exposed nerve? Am I just resisistant to bullshit? Or is it just the fact that it twists and spins my language to a point where it ends up rendering it meaningless? I don't know, but it sickens me to hear grown people speak like this.

And that part where you mentioned the lack of a challenge...I don't know about you, but the only challenge I face everyday is choking back the bile that rises in my throat everytime I receive another meaningless (to me, at least) task. But it sounds you do have some interest in what you're doing. Maybe the environment is the thing. One thing I know is that the smaller the company, the less you feel that corporate blanket of banality and disconnectedness hanging over you.

In my case, I was the first and only one in my family to get a college degree, and I remember how proud my parents were of my supposed high intelligence, and when I was doing those more hands-on labor type jobs, I always felt like it would be wrong of me to waste my knowledge and brains doing something blue-collar. Funny thing is, doing graphics for a finance company feels a lot like a factory job to me. Ironic. Anyway, I don't know if this gives you any more or less insight into your own situation, but it is an interesting thing, this corporate disillusion syndrome that so many people seem to have.

by the way, I have a buddy who is an aerospace engineer, and this guy has always wanted to do that, ever since he was in high school--and he now wants to be a chicken farmer! Sounds nutty maybe, but he already has a small barn and a bunch of chickens...I guess it has a lot more to do with the environment than the actual work many times.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 02:46 pm
You guys need to read about -- gawd I can never remember how to spell his name -- Mihaly Czikszenmihaly or something -- and the "flow" experience.

You guys want flow.

I was in a total office environment and I wasn't creating anything per se but since it was serving people who were right there, it was tremendously satisfying and concrete. Someone would come to me with a problem and I'd help them solve it and they'd leave with face aglow. Someone would come in the program unhirable and with no prospects and leave with a good job and full of optimism. I got immediate feedback on what I was doing, all the time.

OK I'm gonna go find "flow" --

Here we go:

http://www.brainchannels.com/thinker/mihaly.html

Quote:
Flow is an optimal experience characterized by:

a sense of playfulness

a feeling of being in control

concentration and highly focused attention

mental enjoyment of the activity for its own sake

a distorted sense of time

a match between the challenge at hand and one's skills


So far I haven't found what I had in mind that lays out what makes a flow experience a flow experience, but one major element I remember is that you get immediate feedback. Taking a test and waiting for results for a month isn't flow. Making a really difficult basket (*swish!*) is flow.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jan, 2005 02:59 pm
Here's a bit more:

Mihaly wrote:
The flow experience is when a person is completely involved in what he or she is doing, when the concentration is very high, when the person knows moment by moment what the next steps should be, like if you are playing tennis, you know where you want the ball to go, if you are playing a musical instrument you know what notes you want to play, every millisecond, almost. And you get feedback to what you're doing. That is, if you're playing music, you can hear whether what you are trying to do is coming out right or in tennis you see where the ball goes and so on. So there's concentration, clear goals, feedback, there is the feeling that what you can do is more or less in balance with what needs to be done, that is, challenges and skills are pretty much in balance. When these characteristics are present a person wants to do whatever made him or her feel like this, it becomes almost addictive and you're trying to repeat that feeling and that seems to explain why people are willing to do things for no good reason -- there is no money, no recognition -- just because this experience is so rewarding and that's the flow experience.


http://www.glef.org/php/interview.php?id=Art_964&key=005
0 Replies
 
 

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