2
   

Does college make you a liberal?

 
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:00 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
And yet the very fact that a high-school student approaching college comes to us with such a question is rather telling in itself.

Blatham adds more anecdotal evidence (his and Ican's experiences) but that doesn't mean that the poster's concerns are without foundation. She didn't pluck that question out of thin air.


JW...here's a primary mistake you make, of the "where there is rumor of smoke, there is surely evidence a fire probably blazed"

We've seen posters come onto this board who were convinced that 9-11 had been initiated by Israel's Mossad. They referred to accounts found on web pages or in newsletters which claimed that Jewish people had been forewarned, and were not present in the towers that morning. They used terms such as 'evidence'. They suggested that there would be no reason for these accounts to be 'all over the internet' unless there was something to them.

Why could we not reword your sentence above as follows?

"He didn't pluck that information out of thin air."


Who says her fears are founded on rumor? Has she stated that? I certainly didn't use that word.

How is it that you so willingly discount any and all anecdotal evidence in the other thread, yet bring your own to this thread and offer it as proof that she will most likely encounter no liberal bias on any college campus because you didn't?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:03 pm
Well, the fact that the original poster has stated that he/she's 17 and not in college yet, I hardly think there is more than rumor that she could be going off of re:liberal bias in college. What else could the fears be based off of?

It isn't surprising that a conservative would fear such things; it's a hot topic on many conservative discussion boards right now. You didn't seriously believe that these people were coming up with original ideas? The thought! Smile

For a nice rundown of the lack of facts behind those rumors, see the other thread.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:12 pm
Quote:
Who says her fears are founded on rumor? Has she stated that? I certainly didn't use that word.

How is it that you so willingly discount any and all anecdotal evidence in the other thread, yet bring your own to this thread and offer it as proof that she will most likely encounter no liberal bias on any college campus because you didn't?

Neither I nor anyone else (so far heard from) in this rather large community of users who have been to university. How odd that should be the case.

But you miss the point. You suggest her initial question is 'telling'. Is it? What does it 'tell'? Your obvious suggestion is that there must be, or is likely to be, or may be, something real reflected in the simple fact she asks it.

But of course, on such an evidentiary basis, we can make only the mildest of those assertions ('may be') with any credibility. And we can make that 'maybe' assertion about Mossad involvement in 9-11 too. As stupid as it would be.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:24 pm
Quote:
John Leo is a contributing editor for U.S.News & World Report, and his column on the state of our culture appears weekly in 140 newspapers across the country. Leo has covered the social sciences and intellectual trends for Time magazine and the New York Times.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/jleo.htm
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:26 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Who says her fears are founded on rumor? Has she stated that? I certainly didn't use that word.

How is it that you so willingly discount any and all anecdotal evidence in the other thread, yet bring your own to this thread and offer it as proof that she will most likely encounter no liberal bias on any college campus because you didn't?

Neither I nor anyone else (so far heard from) in this rather large community of users who have been to university. How odd that should be the case.


So your anecdotal evidence trumps that of Leo's daughter's experience, or the Kuwaiti student's experience, or any number of others' experiences shown on the other thread? Rather large community of users? The site may say there are 30,000 registered members, but does that necessarily mean they are "users"? Considering there's absolutely no way to voluntarily "opt out" of membership on A2K, I'd submit neither you nor I have any way of knowing that.

blatham wrote:
But you miss the point. You suggest her initial question is 'telling'. Is it? What does it 'tell'? Your obvious suggestion is that there must be, or is likely to be, or may be, something real reflected in the simple fact she asks it.


I think it's you that's missed the point here. She obviously has a "concern" about the subject and asked a question regarding it, ostensibly without knowing about the "other" thread. That's the observation I was making and I think a valid one.

blatham wrote:
But of course, on such an evidentiary basis, we can make only the mildest of those assertions ('may be') with any credibility. And we can make that 'maybe' assertion about Mossad involvement in 9-11 too. As stupid as it would be.


You can make that "maybe" assertion about lots of things, but it doesn't make her concern or her question any less valid. We don't know what lead her to ask the question, but you can hypothesize all you want.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:29 pm
To answer the original quetion:

Only if you let it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:30 pm
Well, it has to be outside experiences, JW; he/she hasn't been to college yet.

So the question is, what experiences led to the concern? There don't seem to be a whole lot of options here...

And while some individuals will undoubtedly report problems of bias in every situation, the claim that it is a 'problem' has been thoroughly debunked in the other thread as lacking anything besides anecdotal evidence.

Besides, Liberalsim is a superior philosophy, so what's the problem anyways? Zing!

Cycloptichorn
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:31 pm
JW, go back and read the first couple of pages and you will see that her concerns are based on things she 'heard'. It's possible that she also read something like what you all read that has you so convinced, but it's clear that her concern is not based on personal experience.

Maybe you see this and that is why you are backing away from it now.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:33 pm
I see you resisted McG...was it a liberal arts college?
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:34 pm
Not that I need defend myself but I've been raised in the Wesleyan tradition, I'm also a 4th generation Wesleyan by faith tradition, both my parents attended a Wesleyan University. I was given freedom to think and took a full scholarship to another University.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:35 pm
Blatham,

I don't think you can make the case that most universities are not - in both the professorial and administrative ranks - numerically and actually dominated by a substantially larger fraction of people who identify themselves as "liberal" than exists in the country as a whole. There is lots of evidence to confirm that, and there is a real basis for one of a libertarian bent to be concerned about the controls imposed on behavior in the name of the various doctrines of the priesthood of political correctitude.

However, I would agree that it doesn't matter very much. University is like a cafeteria and one learns from the various offerings. I can recall several wonderful professors who taught me a good deal about engineering and science, but I would trust very few of them with the management of one of our major projects.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:45 pm
Freeduck, I'm not sure what it is you think I'm "backing away" from. I did go back and read the first few pages, which is what lead me to post what I did today.

I'm not sure she read the other thread, although I pointed it out to her on page 1. Somewhere around page 3 or 4, blatham asked her about how she came to ask the question, although I haven't yet seen a response. We still don't know exactly how she came to form her opinions.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:46 pm
Logic, JW! Use that pretty brain of yours!

If she hasn't been to college yet, then it has to be second-hand evidence used to form opinions.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:47 pm
jw
Prediction coming your way via PM.
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Magus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:52 pm
Universities are staffed by people who deal with information and reason... professionally.
Their staffs are therefore more cerebral people than the population-at-large.
As a consequence of this dearth of ignorance, your average college staff probably DOES have a higher percentage of "liberal" thinkers than found in the general population.

BUT... there ARE some colleges which are dominated by "conservative" elements.
(They're not particularly GOOD colleges, but, hey, "if life gives you lemons...")
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:53 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Freeduck, I'm not sure what it is you think I'm "backing away" from. I did go back and read the first few pages, which is what lead me to post what I did today.

I'm not sure she read the other thread, although I pointed it out to her on page 1. Somewhere around page 3 or 4, blatham asked her about how she came to ask the question, although I haven't yet seen a response. We still don't know exactly how she came to form her opinions.


Maybe you and blatham have a separate conversation going on that I'm not aware of. I'm not sure what the other thread has to do with the fact that what you say is 'telling' is nothing more than the likelihood that she is part of conservative circles where this sort of thing is likely to be discussed or that she's read the same columns that you and others on this forum are fond of quoting from. She clearly has no experience of her own in the matter. Good for her for asking, but where do you think her concern is coming from if not from what others have told her? How does one become so identified with a political ideology at that age if not by indoctrination?
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:54 pm
I'm sorry but when I think of McGentrix at college all I can think of is Needemyer.... Laughing
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:55 pm
Didn't Needermyer have a really big wanker?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:56 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Blatham,

I don't think you can make the case that most universities are not - in both the professorial and administrative ranks - numerically and actually dominated by a substantially larger fraction of people who identify themselves as "liberal" than exists in the country as a whole. There is lots of evidence to confirm that, and there is a real basis for one of a libertarian bent to be concerned about the controls imposed on behavior in the name of the various doctrines of the priesthood of political correctitude.

However, I would agree that it doesn't matter very much. University is like a cafeteria and one learns from the various offerings. I can recall several wonderful professors who taught me a good deal about engineering and science, but I would trust very few of them with the management of one of our major projects.


george
Your second paragraphy is the relevant one. There aren't many managers I would trust with my kid's education nor with a sympathetic bedside manner when grammy is dying.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 02:56 pm
of course I'm not one to poke fun or make judgements...I didn't go to college...except when my band played frat parties and I had all the nice conservative little sisters blowing me in the truck while their boyfriends were busy doing beer bongs :wink:
0 Replies
 
 

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