Does college make you a liberal?

Yes, Blatham, I did go to college; and even in the "innocent" '40s politics was a frequent bull session topic.

flyboy

Bull sessions, yes. Love 'em.

It's in the cafeteria where our poster is most likely to be engaged by political or other such discussions with her/his classmates.

From her/his posts, it seems pretty clear she/he has a distinct set of opinions already and was engaged in a political club at school. If agreement is what the poster is looking for, that will be available, as intellectually impoverished as such a goal might be.

Whew long reply!
Thanks so much for all the advice, criticism, and interest in my query.

Cycloptichorn - UT Austin is my fourth choice, but steadily moving up. If Rice and Cornell fall through (*cross fingers that they don't*) then it is between Baylor and UT Austin. As for working in gov., I'm still debating. I want to study linguistics and possibly international affairs or political science and going into foreign affairs, but I'm just not sure if that is what I want to do yet.

Boomerang - Social responsibility is not immoral as long as it does not contradict your idea of personal responsibility. At least that is how I look at it. I think it is influenced greatly by our politics. Or perhaps our idea of social responsiblity defines/influences our politics? I think college will expand a LOT of my ideas, but I want to be careful to not abandon what I believe in simply bc the status quo says I must. Rice is my dream school and it is particularly liberal. I was not sure if it was true that profs would command you to follow their way of thinking or fail their class, whether in Rice or anywhere else.

Blatham - I do desire that sort of challenge, and that is why I was asking. I don't like jumping into things without having some idea of what I'm getting myself into! So I figured if I knew how stiff the liberal agenda was on most college campuses and how widespread it was then I might be able to bolster my own understanding of my current beliefs. It's like preparing for a debate I suppose, I want to make sure I know as much as possible before I go into a really hard tournament. Even if at the end of the tourney I am convinced that my side was wrong, I want to know that I fought for it to the end until I was convinced otherwise. . . Does that make sense?

It does make sense, as a general strategy. But I think you're perhaps operating from under some pretty colorful misconceptions, or possible misconceptions, and that could make your strategy somewhat inappropriate.

Clearly, you've a bright and active mind. Equally clearly, you're not scared of a fight. That all makes you well equipped for a university environment, likely moreso than many you'll study with.

But you are in danger of arriving wherever it will be with some preconceptions which are not intellectually advantageous. Preconceptions seldom are, are they?

If you expect, or hope for, or count on an environment which will support your present set of ideas and values, and not challenge them in any REAL manner (cause you to doubt those present notions), then you'll be wasting much of that bright mind and the opportunities ahead. I know you understand this theoretically.

But a clear-headed look at 'learning' and 'intellectual challenge' will show that even your most cherished notions ought to be open to revision. Your good profs (and student friends) will not necessarily make you more certain that you are right. If you don't experience some intellectual or philosphical turmoil, that's probably not a good indicator.

As an educational principle, you can probably see that that's true for EVERYONE...liberal, conservative, religious, non-believers, etc.

Now, if you define liberal as some person or process which challenges cherished notions, then university will, under that definition, be a 'liberal' experience.

So, a fine start to all of this would be to investigate a notion you seem to hold presently..."if I knew how stiff the liberal genda was on most college campuses..." Where did you get the idea that such an agenda was present, or common if varying in 'stiffness' on any or most university campuses? Can that idea be appropriately considered 'knowledge'? Or is it something else?

Re: Does college make you a liberal?


Yes.

I'm in a different country of course, but if anything university made me less, rather than more leftist.

That is to say, I did not change my overall progressive orientation, but I did get to distinguish ever more ferociously between my own, rather libertine / individualist brand and the more collectivist brand. In particular it greatly magnified and specified my already roughly shaped anti-communism. In the course of that, I changed from a socialist into, for lack of a better word, an anarchodemocrat.

My professor, by the way - the senior one in our discipline, the one giving most of the modern history classes, who also was my sponsor/overseer (dont know the English word) for my graduation thesis (on the political mobilisation of ethnic minorities in postcommunist Europe) was a conservative. At least, as far as I could gather.

He did not turn me into a conservative, just like my fellow students did not make me into yet another centre-left socialdemocrat type the way most of them were. The books I read and above all, the papers I had to write about them, however did teach me a great lot, and changed or sharpened my opinion on many individual subjects.

One of the things they also taught me, though, is that a great many things you get to study that are of incredible interest are, even when part of the history or social sciences curriculum, very hard to fit into any easy-mould conservative vs. liberal scheme. Unless you really try to make them, of course. You're studying, say, the history of how national identities were created or shaped in the Southern Balkans, it's all about politics, and yet nothing in it can easily be interpreted as something that "turns you into a liberal" or "turns you into a conservative". You won't, in university, at least not in later years, find this superficial tendency to reduce most any topic at hand to that single, all-encompassing either/or angle, the way you see them be on Internet boards like these.

Re: Whew long reply!


What's your evidence of this, rose?

I live about 5 minutes from the campus; I've gone to a few seminars in their facilities, interacted slightly with some of the faculty and staff, met a few of the students (some bright people in the Democratic club there), and have attended dozens of their athletic functions -- baseball, basketball, football, and track competitions. That does NOT make me very qualified to say the following:

I don't think Rice is all that liberal.



I really think that the probability of this being true -- anywhere -- makes one's lottery chances look like a sure thing.

As a credential for your curriculum vitae you could certainly do worse than Rice. As an environment in which to challenge your thinking regarding your deeply held conservative beliefs, you could probably do better at Cornell. Or UT.

You're obviously a bright person (Rice and Cornell wouldn't be considering you if you weren't) so my only advice is to abandon yout trepidation of unfamiliar logic.

Remember, it's always best to devils' advocate your own arguments; if you can't hold your opinion in the face of opposing logic, perhaps your opinion should be changed. If you really are a down-deep conservative, then being surrounded by liberals will only give you an opportunity to sharpen your rhetoric and discard those arguments that you cannot fully support.

That being said, I would encourage ya to start reading and posting in the other topics in the forum; I know I've learned a huge amount from listening to the viewpoints of those I disagree with (and from time to time change my opinions based upon good arguments, fancy that!).

Cycloptichorn

Very interesting to see this thread, which I've read through from the beginning, today.

rmrrose820 (mouthful, or what?) - you will leave any decent university with a much greater idea of how the world works, how you work and how the people around you work...all fundamental building blocks for the life ahead of you.

Some of the ideas you come across in interpreting these matters will be from a "liberal" viewpoint, others from a "conservative" viewpoint...just be aware that this may not be explicitly stated in each case and that it is always worth understanding the oppositions position - and the reasons why they consider it to be valid - in forming your own position.

I'm quite sure I'll differ in perspective from many of the positions you appear to espouse but that difference can be explained by the different factors to which I have been exposed in my life, including the country in which I have lived.

If you wish to continue with the beliefs which you now hold, regardless of future experience (at university or otherwsie), I suggest you change your attitude to learning in general, or you will arrive sadly at a crisis of belief, from which you will find it hard to escape.

We all change our views to some extent but you shouldn't worry about that - it's normal and natural.

Good luck.

KP

edited due to duplication
[size=7]fine tuning due to increased pc security per cdk advice[/size]

check this out

Both your links work, and both of them are pretty stupid.

Cycloptichorn

chill pill dude

I'm as chill as can be. Believe me :wink:

Other than pointing out to the (admitted) conservative that he shouldn't attend a Liberal Arts college (which he wasn't planning on doing), what exactly was the point of that piece?

Cycloptichorn

college does not necessarily make you a liberal...you can avoid it if you party a lot, snort cocaine and have your daddy buy your diploma...in fact you might even become president....sorry for my late arrival.... I got pulled on the way over...

I was thinking this topic was about liberalism running amok in edcation?
I think that's what that was supporting - do you know anything about John Wesley? Think and let think? They must be getting away from that?
Suunds kind of circular?

Husker

There is a thread I'll refer you to, of now some 80 pages, which has as its subject the claim that universities in the US indoctrinate students to a 'liberal' political position, and towards a hedonistic lifestyle. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39783&start=0

It is a claim that echoes around within a group of internet sites (townhall, newsmax, etc), and media outlets (NY Post, WSJ, etc). If you read through that thread, and you ought to, you'll find that the 'evidence' for the thesis is deeply questionable.

Better than merely adding another anecdotal account here (from a fellow who writes for townhall), go through that other thread with care. Ican, who I'm sure you know to be both a Republican and a conservative generally, has just written that neither he nor any of his children ever experienced any instances of academic bullying or leftist propaganda in their university careers. Such was my experience as well. Of the thirty or so profs or TAs I studied with, I could identify the political preferences of maybe three or four of them - but even then, there was no bullying and there was no down-marking for reasons of political philosophy.

I took classes by some of the most economically conversative theorists in the world, and I'm still very liberal. And I know conversative people who took classes from the liberal ones and are still conversative. It's all a matter of personal thought and choice, and you shouldn't go into a college setting not wanting to change or think at all. Wanting to keep your political identity is fine, but college is all about finding new ways to look at certain situations and understanding the varied opinions of any number of people. Stay conservative, but don't hate the liberals you meet, and maybe you'll even come to understand their views a bit better. You don't have to worry about a "liberal agenda" generall, and people will not be trying to indoctrinate you. The professors are there to teach, the students are there to learn, very few people are there to convert.

And yet the very fact that a high-school student approaching college comes to us with such a question is rather telling in itself.

Blatham adds more anecdotal evidence (his and Ican's experiences) but that doesn't mean that the poster's concerns are without foundation. She didn't pluck that question out of thin air.

The good news is she seems to have the proper attitude in dealing with whatever comes her way, and could perhaps encounter bias from both camps (of which there is anecdotal evidence to be found).

I would only caution her to enjoy every minute and realize it will go by in the blink of an eye.

(And, if she does somehow end up at UT...don't spend too much time on 6th Street LOL).

Hook 'em, Gig 'em...whatever, it's all good