14
   

Me Too

 
 
nimh
 
  2  
Fri 20 Oct, 2017 06:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

If I simply ignore you, you write some stupid bullshit and nobody ever calls you out on it and the potential reader erroneously thinks what you wrote is true, or logical. Can't have that.

You really, really can.

The world's not going to be a smidgen worse off if someone posts something you think is "stupid bullshit" on some internet forum and it doesn't get replied to.

Insert XKCD cartoon about "somebody being wrong on the Internet".
maxdancona
 
  2  
Fri 20 Oct, 2017 06:17 pm
@nimh,
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  5  
Fri 20 Oct, 2017 06:18 pm
Edgar, Contrex, Punkey, Osso...

Thank you for sharing your stories. I am so sorry to hear of your experiences.

Wish I had more words.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 08:53 am
I think what is really amazing (in a horrifying way) is the extent of the issue, especially in fields like entertainment where a few people with lots of power work with women in their teens and twenties. I think most of us have seen the stat where 20% of women report sexual abuse, but to hear some of the recent stories really puts faces to the issue and shows that people I thought would be immune from this were not. I saw Molly Ringwald's comments where she continuously had to fight off abuse as a 14 year old, even though her parents were very protective. I read this morning Elizabeth Warren describe being literally chased around a desk in a law office. Last week a well respected, upper manager came up in a conversation I was having and the guy I was talking with filled me in on all the women in his chain of command that he had propositioned, many of them married. (The guy is a partner of one of them so hears the stories, including about his partner.) I was shocked. Honestly, as a guy that has never been exposed to much of this, it is an eye opener. The problem goes from an academic one reported in surveys and news reports about lawsuits to something that has faces and names.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 08:05 am
If there is one win from this whole Me Too effort, it is this column by Cal Thomas. For those who don't know, Thomas is conservative columnist who usually appears in major newspapers. The news on Me Too prompted him to ask a simple question to people he knows.

Quote:
I asked my adult daughter and oldest granddaughter if they had ever encountered sexual harassment. My daughter said at a previous job her boss “invited” her to sit on his lap. She refused and no longer works there.

Even more shocking was the response I received from my granddaughter, who is a nurse at a hospital in San Antonio, Texas. I reprint her account (with her permission) because it contains a lesson, not only for men, but for the male-dominated culture.
...
“It’s a tough subject to speak on. Personally, I have been sexually harassed many times in my workplace and generally speaking. All the jobs I have ever had, there has been sexual harassment. I am a nurse and have had doctors make inappropriate comments. I’ve felt very uncomfortable and have tried to ignore or ‘laugh off’ the remarks for fear of retaliation. These are doctors I have needed orders from for my patients. The last thing I need is for them to be mad at me. So, when I see the ones who have made inappropriate remarks, I smile and say hello. I’m sure if I ever went to report (them) it would somehow be turned on me like I did something wrong. So I just ‘laugh it off’ and move on, because, just like Harvey (Weinstein), doctors are the ones bringing in the big bucks and are granted immunity for certain things ... i.e., sexual harassment."


Maybe if men asked the women in their lives about this we would understand it more.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 12:33 pm
Stories today: G H W Bush thinks grabbing women by the ass is a joke. Val Kilmer accused of sex assault. People feel emboldened now that they actually get listened to.
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 02:35 pm
@engineer,
This interests me. I worked at a major hospital in the science lab(s) for a lot of years, but met my future husband after six years, which stopped my dating anyone else, happily cold turkey. During the time I did date some I worked with, nothing horrid happened - indeed, I still count them as friends and have fond memories, and that was a long time ago now. No ugly approaches, nothing insulting - and I was a sort of early on feminist. Ok, I shook my head at feminism in '62, but read more and agreed at least somewhat by '63.

The only harassing in all that time was just plain funny - Jimmy the Flirt, easily dispatched. Even Jimmy knew he was playing obnoxious. He was keen since we had the same exact birthday (snort). That's true but so what? He's old too by now....

Well, I've been talking the late 60's/early 70's. Maybe it was, at least sometimes, a loosey gooseyer environment at that place and time.

As I've told on a2k, I was raped once, not at all funny. I should have gone to the police, but that was beyond my ability then.
That was before the times I described above. Maybe those times above were a cure of sorts, attitude adjustment in action.

I do understand the wisdom of not dating people at work and likely have advised people on a2k not to, for the usual good reasons.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 06:17 pm
In all the outrage of this weeks internet meme, has anyone or anything changed?

The men on this thread are talking about how bad other men are... is there any one of us who feels that their own behavior has been disrespectful of women? Is there anyone who plans to change their behavior (other then strengthening their previously held beliefs) to fix this problem?

It seems like liberals are pushing the same liberal causes from this, "rape culture" and empowerment. Conservatives who are taking part (and the number is much lower) are seeing in this in a different light. If you listen to Gretchen Carlson (someone who has every right to her opinion), her take on this is quite different. There is no one on this thread whose response surprises me. No one has learned anything. No one has changed their mind. Everyone is playing to the same partisan script that we always follow.

We have all the frenzy of the internet outrage of the week. Rather a conversation, what we are getting is a greater divide and a strengthening of differences.

No one is suggesting any policy changes. The call seems to be for people to acknowledge how bad men are. Is there any other message?

I was upset... now I am feeling resigned. Real conversation has been replaced by Social media outrage, and differences are resolved through attacks. I don't know what will make things better. But this isn't it.

edgarblythe
 
  2  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 07:05 pm
@maxdancona,
Is there anyone willing to respond to you on the same point, over and over, for hundreds of whining posts? Not me.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 07:26 pm
@edgarblythe,
I love irony.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 07:31 pm
@edgarblythe,
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 08:26 pm
I happen to know for a fact that women absolutely do not ever sexually molest any men or boys. It just don't happen.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 10:10 pm
@ossobucotemp,
I will add, since I meant to, that as much as I did socialize, no one ever then grabbed my butt or the other stuff I'm reading. Has life gotten cruder? and if so, why?

Los Angeles is a city of multiplicities, among millions, but I didn't run into any crude **** in daily life, over a lot of years.
Once, yes, but that wasn't in LA.





0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 10:27 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'll argue with that, but I think you said that tongue in cheek, a good idea.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 10:35 pm
@ossobucotemp,
Meantime, I'm done.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Thu 26 Oct, 2017 01:30 am
I would like to thank Engineer for his contribution to this thread, along with all the others, many of whom have already been acknowledged.
roger
 
  3  
Thu 26 Oct, 2017 02:17 am
@Setanta,
The only problem with engineer's posts is that they are so rare.
engineer
 
  4  
Thu 26 Oct, 2017 06:21 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

In all the outrage of this weeks internet meme, has anyone or anything changed?

Yes, it seems that it has.

I posted that Cal Thomas editorial as an example. I've read Thomas on and off for years, he's your typical, establishment conservative, disdains liberals, hates Clintons, occasionally fights the culture wars, etc. The Me Too effort got to the point (apparently when all four women Senators said "Me Too") that he just decided to ask a question, a question he would have never have otherwise asked. Instead of happily drifting along in ignorance assuming these stories were aberrations or exaggerations, he asked his own family. I suppose people will read into his editorial what they will, but what I read is shock. This was happening to his own daughter and granddaughter and he never suspected. Some families are talking about this and that's a change.

We are seeing women who have stayed silent for years deciding that the benefits of coming forward are finally outweighing the risks. More men who have abused their positions of power are finding themselves held accountable. That's a change.

I suppose there will always be men who minimize the complaints of women, who dismiss statistics on rape as exaggerated, who suggest that when women complain of discrimination in the workplace they are just trying to get unfair advantage, who say that stories that paint women's contributions in a positive light are just political correctness, but for many men who are sympathetic to equal treatment for women but are ignorant of how prevalent some of this behavior is, this is a change.
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2017 07:20 am
@roger,
I could not agree more.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2017 12:15 pm
I hope, now that it's begun, Me Too does not stall after a bit. Hoping it becomes a fact of life.
0 Replies
 
 

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