18
   

Me Too

 
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 07:10 pm
@wmwcjr,
Obviously, "met" should be "meant." Excuse me.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 07:24 pm
@wmwcjr,
Centrox wrote:
The problem lies overwhelmingly with men forcing their sexual attentions on other men, boys and (mostly) women


This was actually the unfortunate comment from Centrox (the rape imagery was troubling but not really relevant).

There are real male victims of sexual assault and female perpetrators of sexual assault. There are real people who have faced assaults that don't fit the ideological narrative. It is very frustrating that these stories are pushed aside (and sometimes even mocked).
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:14 pm
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:53 pm
@maxdancona,
I agree with you completely. I don't play the statistics game. Every rape victim is deserving of our support and respect, regardless of the sex of the rapist and the sex of the victim. In real life I have known two rape victims who revealed their trauma to me and how their lives were adversely affected for decades after the crime. It really is something to cry about. In fact, I have cried about it. I feel very strongly as you do. I believe that, generally speaking, everyone who has posted in this topic feels the same way. As for myself, I get way too emotional thinking about it for very long. That's all I'm able to say now.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:57 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Centrox wrote:
The problem lies overwhelmingly with men forcing their sexual attentions on other men, boys and (mostly) women


This was actually the unfortunate comment from Centrox (the rape imagery was troubling but not really relevant).

There are real male victims of sexual assault and female perpetrators of sexual assault. There are real people who have faced assaults that don't fit the ideological narrative. It is very frustrating that these stories are pushed aside (and sometimes even mocked).


You seem to be accusing posters here of denying your favorite obsession. Nobody did, but you insist on fighting a war over it. Screw off.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 10:12 pm
@edgarblythe,
It was probably 40 years ago when I was at a small dinner party my friend from work had invited me. I think there were maybe 7 people at the dinner, but I only remember one young fellow, one young woman, the host and myself. It wasn’t a big wingding, conversation flowed from topic to topic and I don’t remember why this young man brought it up, but he launched into a theory about women lib and how so many men were being persecuted because angry girls were exacting revenge, accusing innocent men of rape and how unfair it was. What I found so compelling is was his delivery, he seemed to trivialize the situation as laughable. The table got very quiet, everyone (I guess) wondering why he brought it up.........then very quietly, the young woman started to speak without any anger and told the people at the table about her rape. She had been moving furniture into a new apartment, several trips were needed. She set up her bedroom, put sheets and pillows on the bed. The whole day was devoted to moving in, putting pots and pans away, stocking the fridge, all the things you

need to do when you are setting up a new residence. Sometime later she finally put herself to bed, maybe slept for 20 or 30 minutes when she was woken by a man who held one of her kitchen knives to her throat. He had slipped in at god only knows what time and hid in a closet....just waited for everyone to leave. Once she fell asleep, he told her he would kill her if she looked at him or screamed or called for help....then he raped her.

It was sobering, and I wish I could say I was able to offer her some help or understanding, or freaking solace. I was stunned that she said it out loud, and I truly believe she was telling the truth. Her rapist was never found, I’m not even sure if she reported it. But most women recognize the situation, the rapists don’t always hide in your closet, but they will get to you.

And for Max, just because women have been raped or beaten doesn’t mean women don’t care about other gender assaults. It’s all ugly, despicable and soul sucking. Plus we need to protect our children, boys and girls from women and men. It happens, nobody says it doesn’t. Just sober up skippy, Edgar started this whole thing by referencing his own experiences. He sure as hell isnt the only man who was every threatened or assaulted as either a young boy or young man. It happens and you know it does. It continues because victims are shamed and afraid to speak up. It really doesn’t matter if the criminal is male or female, and you know that as well. Stop trying to defend sexual predators.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 01:24 am
Not me, I'm a big bloke and people tend to leave me well alone. I have absolutely no concept of what it's like to be a woman, or a black man for that matter.

I think it's quite shocking to find out how widespread this abuse is, but what's even more shocking is the denial by some rather inadequate men. This denial is rooted in fear and misogyny, some are addicted to their own victim status and are incapable of empathy, others are scared their own sexual activities may come back to haunt them, and some are a mixture of the two.

These women are our wives, mothers, sisters, daughters and we owe it to them to make sure their stories are heard, perpetrators punished and steps taken to stop any future Weinsteins.
edgarblythe
 
  6  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 04:40 am
Thanks, glitter and Iz, for getting the thread back on track. We have probably a dozen threads that delve into abuse where defining the topic is more important than sharing experiences and personal thoughts. I had intended this one to allow participants to share their thoughts and feelings, foremost.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 04:55 am
@ossobucotemp,
Osso, I want to acknowledge your post. I am sorry that this happened. And I want you to know that I respect you.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 04:56 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Thanks, glitter and Iz, for getting the thread back on track. We have probably a dozen threads that delve into abuse where defining the topic is more important than sharing experiences and personal thoughts. I had intended this one to allow participants to share their thoughts and feelings, foremost.


Hurray for the angry White self-righteous men.... getting the politicizing of sexual assault back on track! You should be proud of yourself Edgar.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 05:14 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
And for Max, just because women have been raped or beaten doesn’t mean women don’t care about other gender assaults. It’s all ugly, despicable and soul sucking. Plus we need to protect our children, boys and girls from women and men. It happens, nobody says it doesn’t.


I agree with this. This thread started going off the rails when Contrex wrote a post specifically excluding any victim of a female perpetrator. He did not have to do this, it was a political statement. I found this offensive, and I said so. Contrex, at this point had the option of either ignoring me... or of validating my point of view (in spite of the fact that my point of view isn't part of his world view). All I am asking is that I be included as a human being.

Edgar, completely threw this thread of the rails when he joined with Contrex to attack me, instead of either accepting my rather personal point of view or ignoring me.

My point of view is valid, and it comes from a personal place. I am human being.

I am frustrated that the experiences of the victims of female perpetrators are being thrown under the rug because our stories don't fit the ideological narrative. Put yourself in the shoes of a male who has been assaulted by a female (I am not the only one saying this). These messages completely ignore a group of real people.

I would share my story if I felt safe to do so. I don't think I would ever be accepted. All I am asking is that these thread are inclusive; if Edgar wants to make a safe space.... he should avoid making insults, and accept everyone... not just people that fit the political narrative of the day.

I am a human being. I don't fit in to this world view, and yet I am here. And it bothers me that a personal experience is being politicized and turned into a hashtag that excludes a group of real people.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 05:40 am
@edgarblythe,
Those who just want to turn this into a discussion about themselves are best put on ignore. If someone isn't prepared to approach a subject honestly there's no point talking to them.

I feel this is a watershed moment, similar to the revelations about Jimmy Savile, that lead to lots of powerful men from 1970s television ending up in jail, most notably Rolf Harris.

This man was very powerful, almost national treasure status despite being Australian. He even got the Queen to sit for one of his portraits.

Hopefully Weinstein and others will see some serious jail time.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 08:51 am
@izzythepush,
I'm hoping more people from all over the globe stand up to let us know they don't like it and where possible name the names.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 09:42 am
@edgarblythe,
Me too.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 10:05 am
Some positive changes.

Quote:
Twitter is planning to impose new restrictions on pornographic and hateful imagery as part of a renewed effort to tackle abuse on its social network.
The US company has also said it intends to review user complaints more quickly.
The efforts are outlined in a leaked email from the company's head of safety, which was published by Wired.
But one UK charity has already said the company needs to go further than "tinkering" with its existing rules.
Twitter's chief executive, Jack Dorsey, had said on Friday that he planned to announce a "more aggressive stance" against online abuse this week, after Twitter was criticised for temporarily blocking the account of Rose McGowan - an actress who had accused Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein of rape.
Harvey Weinstein denies all allegations of non-consensual sex.
The UK government had also recently urged social-media leaders to do more to tackle the problem, and suggested Twitter and others would have to pay a levy to fund anti-abuse campaigns in the future.
Twitter has confirmed that Wired's report is accurate.
"Although we planned on sharing these updates later this week, we hope our approach and upcoming changes, as well as our collaboration with the Trust and Safety Council, show how seriously we are rethinking our rules and how quickly we're moving to update our policies and how we enforce them," a spokesman told the BBC.
The council referred to is a new body of 50 independent organisations that Twitter intends to consult to ensure its users can "express themselves with confidence".
Its members include the Internet Watch Foundation, EU Kids Online and the UK Safer Internet Centre.
The leaked email had been addressed to members of the newly formed council.
Among the new steps detailed are:
the immediate and permanent suspension of accounts identified as the original source of nude imagery taken and shared without the subject's permission. In the past, perpetrators faced only a temporary lockout if it was the first time they had committed the offence
the definition of non-consensual nudity has been expanded to include hidden-camera content and "upskirt" imagery that might have been captured without the victim being aware
hate symbols and other hateful imagery will now be treated as sensitive media and should be marked as such by the poster, allowing the content to be initially hidden behind warning alerts
action may be taken against unwanted sexual advances even if the complaint was made by someone that was not a participant in the conversation
Twitter adds that unspecified "enforcement action" is planned against account-holding groups that have historically used violence to advance their causes.
Furthermore, it promises to start taking steps against those who post messages that glorify or condone violence, even if the users do not issue threats of their own.
In both these and others cases, "more details to come" are promised.
Likewise, the email says Twitter will be "investing heavily" in shortening the time it takes to handle complaints, but is not specific about what its new targets will be.
The proposals have been welcomed by the Fawcett Society - a UK-based gender-rights campaign group that previously accused Twitter of "failing women".
But the charity - which is not a member of the new council - said Twitter's managers should go further.
"These are positive changes that do more to recognise the impact of abusive behaviour online," said Jemima Olchawski, the society's head of policy.
"However, [our] research shows that it takes Twitter far, far too long to respond to abusive tweets - if they do at all.
"As a minimum, abusive content should be removed within 24 hours of being reported. Twitter must genuinely commit the resources to make this policy meaningful - tinkering will not be enough."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41666040
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 12:35 pm
@izzythepush,
I don't know why Internet Censorship do anything to stop sexual assault? We already had this same argument, decades ago, about whether the government could censor books and magazines. This is just more of the same.

Twitter is a private company (that I don't personally use). They can censor their content as they please. Facebook solves the problem by putting people into little bubbles; conservatives get what they want to see, Christians get what they want to see, Atheists get what they want to see, liberals get what they want to see. No one interacts, and no one gets hurt.

I happen to like Able2Know for the very reason that here free speech is generally protected. People here with different ideas and different life experiences can post different opinions. We can yell at each other if we want, but no one can be silenced. In my opinion this is a very good thing.

I don't see how this has anything to do with sexual assault that happens offline.

wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 01:05 pm
@maxdancona,
Believe me, what I'm about to say is intended to be received as a request from a friend or at least from someone who's trying to be
well-meaning. Max, you say you have a personal point of view. Would you please ignore what Centrox said and just go ahead and tell us what that point of view is and how you came to have it. If something terrible happened to you or someone you know or love, I'm sure you would get a sympathetic response if you told us about it. If we get sidetracked by "He said this!" "No, he meant this," we won't get anywhere. Perhaps some of those who disagree with you simply need to be educated. I know that I need to be educated. There are some aspects of female-on-male that I don't understand. I think the few who are posting in this topic are decent people. There may not be as big a disagreement here as you seem to believe.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 01:11 pm
@wmwcjr,
Sure Wmwcjr. I started a new topic on my personal experience, and my feelings about the "me too" campaign here. https://able2know.org/topic/420639-1

This thread seems to be coming from an ideological place, not a sincere place. Contrex's comment was followed by Edgar's insults and now Izzy's call for censorship. It would be nice if people could step out of the partisan bubble and have a real discussion on a topic that is quite personal.
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 01:46 pm
@maxdancona,
Thanks! I've got to go now, but I'll check it out when I have time.

I think Edgar was only feeling self-defensive. He's a nice guy. I've reacted the same way myself. When people have had strong personal experiences related to an issue, they're likely to get upset because of the emotional pain involved. Besides, since inhibitions are removed by the anonymous nature of exchanges on the Internet, conflict is actually engendered. There's always the potential for misunderstanding.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Wed 18 Oct, 2017 02:56 pm
@wmwcjr,
I have Max on ignore. What he failed to understand is that were covering just a small personal portion of the subject in the first posts. As people post their own thoughts and experiences the rest will fill in. He is allowed his thoughts and point of view, but not to politicize and/or take a person's personal experience to set off a war. He has hijacked many threads like this and that is what had me reacting so strongly. You can't ask him to be civil about it. It just makes him more strident.
 

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