Me Too

Go piss up a rope, you pompous phony. The day I would value "praise" from you is the day they'll be digging my grave. Your intrinsic hate and fear of women is your obvious motive, and I'm glad to think that EB perseveres.

I agree with this Glitterbag. We have gone through a cultural change that is unquestionably positive. I think workplace abuse is much more likely to be exposed and punished now (a good thing). I think that open discussion is always a good thing.

However, when it ceased to be a discussion it ceased to be valuable. There was a discussion about whether cat-calls could be considered on the same level as rape. Rather having this discussion in a respectful way there was angry yelling and calls for people on the wrong side of the issue to be fired.

I am very grateful that you are including male survivors. I can tell that many male survivors of sexual abuse are feeling attacked by the "MeToo" movement. I understand that you say this shouldn't be what the MeToo movement is about... and I agree.

But the fact is, this angry divisiveness is now what the MeToo movement is associated with. We can keep the progress, and have a healthy discussion about these issues that welcomes voices from multiple perspectives. As long as there is political divisiveness and outrage, people will reject it.

Hee Hee Hee. Didn't you just say not to feed the trolls? (You were always my favorite source of nourishment).

Edit: I am curious what he means by "intrinsic" hate. Is there another type of hate?

Max, as much as I like to arrive at a meeting of the minds..........I think you completely missed my point.

Originally it was a movement, aimed at healing victims of rape and abuse. And that was a good thing. Then it became a hashtag, with two effects: 1) a mass realization of the scale of the problem (intended goal); and 2) progressive trivialization, as all the meak and deviant try to get their 15 minutes of victim fame.

Well, ok then.

I've been called many things throughout my life and, sorry to say, meek and attention seeking just isn't among that list. As for deviance, any thing that isn't missionary could be construed as that according to conservatives, so there's that.

Max's point is skewed, True, cat calls and rape are not on the same level. One is supposed to be flattering and the other a crime. However, the #MeToo movement isn't about just one level of sexual harassment, it's about ALL levels of sexual abuse.

Cat calling isn't a crime, no. But what it does is to install fear and intimidation. Simply walking down a street causes alarm when that happens when unsolicited harassment occurs, not knowing if it will escalate to another round of verbal assault or even physical assault when it's ignored or reacted to.

No, cat calling isn't a crime. But it sure escalates quickly if the "right" response isn't given. And that there, is the point. Why do I have to worry about my safety because some moron thinks they have the "right" to objectify me?

So, I ask you, exactly who is seeking 15 minutes of fame? Because it certainly isn't me.

I was not talking about you. Rather, I mean the folks who used Metoo as something else than highlight the urgency of the problem or help victims heal. Both of which I consider legit purposes, just to be clear.

As for cat calling, it happened to me a few times, and I don't consider it a problem, personally. Objectify me if you want to, no skin off my nose.

You don't have to worry if a rock gets thrown at you either. Or being chased. Or being caught. And you don't have to worry about what happens after that.

And that's the issue. You think it's some big joke. Something to lol about.

Objectify you. No thanks. It's not a joke.

A viral French video shows how catcalling can escalate into assault
July 30, 2018
Annabelle Timsit

On Thursday, July 26, a woman named Marie Laguerre was walking home on the Boulevard de la Villette in the 19th arrondissement of Paris, when something awful—but very common—happened. A man she didn’t know started making degrading sexual comments to her on the street.

But in this case, the altercation turned violent. When Marie responded to the man who was verbally harassing her, he turned back and threw an ashtray at her. When it missed, he slapped her, in broad daylight, in front of dozens of witnesses sitting on the terrace of a cafe.

Street harassment is, sadly, a regular occurrence in France. A recent survey measured the prevalence of sexual harassment and abuse in French society by interviewing a nationally-representative sample of 2,000 French women ages 15 and over. It found that, over the course of their lifetime, eight out of 10 French women had experienced at least one form of sexual assault or street/public transportation harassment. The survey also found that street harassment isn’t limited to suggestive comments or inappropriate whistling: 41% of French women have suffered from forced sexual contact in a public place.

Perhaps that’s why the video of Laguerre’s attack has gone viral in France. Clearly, it’s struck a chord with the many people there who have experienced street harassment or abuse—and it comes on the heels of a major governmental reform in France, spearheaded by the minister of equality, Marlène Schiappa, which aims to change the way the country punishes different forms of violence against women and gender inequality.

One part of this reform aims to eradicate street harassment by criminalizing it. Starting in the fall, incidences of street harassment–defined as following someone, “upskirting,” asking intrusive and repeated questions, whistling in a suggestive way, or making a sexist comment–will be punished with fines ranging from €90 for a first offense to €3,000 for repeated offenders and aggravating circumstances (such as when the victim is a minor).

The government’s proposal is up for a vote this week, and there’s no doubt that this incident will play a part in the discourse surrounding the bill. Marlène Schiappa has stated her support for Laguerre. In an interview with French magazine Le Parisien, she said that this vote was about no more or less than “the freedom of women to move freely in the public space.”

Since the incident, Marie has filed a former complaint with the police. Her attack was caught on video and witnessed by dozens of people, many of whom rushed to her defense and have since agreed to testify on her behalf.

That’s the best-case scenario. But street harassment and violence happens to thousands of anonymous victims every day around the world, and in most cases, the victims don’t get justice and the perpetrators don’t face the consequences. And a quick look at the comments under the video of the Laguerre incident on YouTube reveals a depressing reality: There’s a long way to go to when it comes to convincing the world that abusers, not victims, deserve the blame for these types of attacks.

One YouTube user writes, “before, any woman dressed like that would have been arrested for indecency. … Marie Laguerre was not ‘dignified’ at all, because a dignified woman dresses decently, not like a prostitute.” Another echoes the age-old accusation levied against abuse victims, saying that “If he beat her it means that she deserved it.”

In her own recollection of events on her Facebook page, Marie says that her experience wasn’t an isolated incident. “Harassment is a daily occurrence. Those men who think they are all allowed everything in the street, who allow themselves to humiliate us, and who can’t stand being offended, are unacceptable. It is time for this kind of behavior to end.” Let’s hope she is right.

Catcalling Isn’t — and Never Was — Harmless
December 4, 2019

In late November, Ruth George, a 19 year old student at the University of Illinois at Chicago was brutally murdered by a stranger as she walked to her car in a parking garage. Her killer had called out to her — catcalling her — and was angry that she had ignored him and continued on to her vehicle. He chased her down, sexually assaulting and choking her before leaving her for dead. When Ruth was discovered by her friends, family and police the next morning, it was too late.

This story is tragic, yet it is far from the only time that women have been killed or beaten by men who harassed them on the street. In addition to the murder of Ruth George, three other women in recent years have been murdered for rejecting men who publicly harassed them:

Janese Talton-Jackson was killed in Pittsburgh after she turned down a man who was harassing her in a bar.

Tiarah Poyau was killed in Brooklyn during the J’ouvert Festival when she asked a harasser to stop dancing with her.

After Mary Spears refused to give a man in Detroit her number when she was leaving the funeral of a family friend, he shot and killed her.

Catcalling may seem like a minor issue, particularly when compared to domestic violence and sexual assault. But it exists on the broader spectrum of violence against women, and is part of an overall pattern of aggressive and abusive behavior based on the sexual objectification of women. A recent study shows that the sexual objectification of women is directly related to a greater propensity to commit sexual violence, including rape. It is one of the four root causes of domestic and sexual violence in our society:

Objectification and degradation of women in our media

Rape culture
Harmful gender norms
Inequality

Catcalling is about treating women like objects. A man sees a woman, and yells out sexually suggestive remarks to her. The purpose is not to get the woman (or girl) to stop and talk to them. It is to exercise power over the woman, or to shame and degrade her.

Catcalling is not flirting, or a way to show appreciation or admiration for a woman. There is a way to compliment another person — and it is not by shouting lewd remarks at them as they walk down the street. Flirting assumes equality and has an element of playfulness, while catcalling or harassment is intended to demean and dominate the other person. Flirting most often happens one-on-one, while catcalling often involves a group of men and a single woman.

Too often, street harassment leads to violence because at its core, it involves a fundamental belief that men are entitled to women. When a woman rejects a man who catcalls her, either by ignoring him or by telling him no, he may react with violence.

All types of sexual violence are unacceptable, from sexual harassment to catcalling to rape. By addressing the seemingly minor forms of sexual violence — and the root causes of those violence, like the objectification of women — we can have a significant impact on the prevalence of gender-based violence in our society.

So what can you do? Speak up. If you hear someone harass another person, say something! Whether they are catcalling a woman in real life or online, you can make a difference simply by speaking out (safely). You can also make a difference by more thoughtfully consuming media. If we don’t buy products or consume media that objectifies women, we can sway advertisers and media companies to change the way that they operate. These are the small — but important — ways that each of us can play a role in changing our culture.

The culture has to change and that includes the so-called lesser offenses.

I never said it was a joke, just that it does not affect me that much. I never understood why "objectifying" was such a big no-no. In essence, sexual desire is always objectifying, and expressing sexual desire is necessary for any consensual intercourse to ever happen...

Being chased, thrown stones, etc, are physical assault forbidden by law, unlike cat-calling. And you are right that a man would typically not feel physically threatened by a woman and that it makes a big difference in the vice-versa situation.

Still, someone has to make a sexual overture to someone else for our species to survive.

If this were a matter of a simple "love connection" this thread would be called "How I Met Your Mother" but it's not. You've taken a very cavalier attitude where you continue to back pedal and sway your course.

#MeToo

I'm afraid my horse riding skills could use a little practice.

This thread is indeed about Metoo, which is about physical sexual assault, not about cat calling, which is -- if my understanding of the American language is correct -- a verbal thing and thus protected by your bill of rights.

Thanks for making my point.

You don't have a point. You want to argue semantics.



Me Too movement
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Me Too (or #MeToo) movement, with variations of related local or international names, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault of women.[1][2][3] The phrase "Me Too" was initially used in this context on social media in 2006, on Myspace, by sexual harassment survivor and activist Tarana Burke.[4]

Similar to other social justice and empowerment movements based upon breaking silence, the purpose of "Me Too", as initially voiced by Burke as well as those who later adopted the tactic, is to empower women through empathy and solidarity through strength in numbers, especially young and vulnerable women, by visibly demonstrating how many women have survived sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.[4][5][6]

Cat calling is not merely verbal. It is an intentional invasion of one's privacy, a forcible sexual assault. It can be trivial, but it can also be brutal, depending on those involved.

My point is that it's important to stay focused, topical and nuanced in order to be effective, and that loading Metoo with all sorts of ancillary "conversations" (events where people love to yell past one another on an electronic platform or another) is a mistake and detrimental to the cause of the movement.

I have yet to use the f-bomb so I'm thinking I am focused, topical and nuanced, in that order.

You, on the other hand, seem to not know your material well although your opinion has been loudly asserted.

I know my material well, in that I have followed Tarana Burke for more than two years now, and am quite well versed in what she is up to.

What are you trying to do?