14
   

Me Too

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 01:43 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
both the ability to cooperate, and the ability to compete... are valuable skills for anyone.

My point entirely: men and women are not that different. Hence my argument about Joan of Arc and co.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 02:10 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
not a chance of that argument coming from me (partly because I don't think you can separate them out very well)

Yes, it's all a bit foggy, but i guess my point is that some degree of competition is unavoidable and can be healthy, when engaged willingly for instance. Not all "fights" are bad, one should be ready to "fight the right fights", and also there are big and small fights.

When you oversee children playing, you can't in practice suppress all competition or intervene in every dispute. In practice you just intervene when one has been really hurt and cries, and you try to reestablish a degree of justice and harmony in there, post-damage... Now if you note that one particular kid happens to make his/her sister/brother cry a lot, you want to talk to that kid about it and set more stringent rules and punishement. Cause he's not been listening so far so you crank up the volume.

I don't think one should rule out violence among kids, but some rules do apply. This will sound very corny but in my view the correct message to boys about physical violence to girls is the one I was handed as a boy, and handed out to my boy: "You will not fight with girls, because they are physically weaker. Fight someone your own strength."

(it's a prohibition of violence to girls, couched in honorable terms. Not something like: "You toxic boy, stay away from them pure girls.")

To which the little boy I was replied: "What if she attacks me?" Father said: "don't fight back, just push back a bit, they don't hurt that much anyway..."

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 04:18 pm
@Olivier5,
When we were kids, we developed social skills (of one sort or another) by interacting with peers. We learned how to ask for what we needed. We learned how to fight fair. We learned when not to fight. We learned how to gain the space we needed and to assert our place in a peer group.

I have mixed feelings about what kids have today... where politically correct adults are always interfering with the interactions between kids. It means that kids can no longer learn how to act in a peer group with no supervision. On one hand, there were kids in our generation who lacked social skills or were different enough in some way to be considered outsiders. These kids are certainly helped by the new adult interventions.

But I am wondering if our kids of this generation are missing something when it comes to dealing with disagreement or adversity. Our kids don't have the same opportunity that we had to learn these skills.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 15 Mar, 2018 01:27 am
@maxdancona,
I wouldn't worry about that. They argue and fight all the times, at least in my experience.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 15 Mar, 2018 08:56 am
Slightly on the ridiculous side:

Quote:
An Unwanted Kiss on ‘American Idol’
By Katherine Rosman, March 14, 2018

The first kiss of an aw-shucks teenager from Oklahoma, delivered by a superstar singer, might have made for a sweet pop-culture moment in a previous era. But as the nation re-examines sexual conduct and power dynamics in workplaces and in the media, the kiss didn’t land well with all viewers.

When Benjamin Glaze, at the time a 19-year-old cashier from Enid, Okla., auditioned for “American Idol,” he had hoped his big moment would come as he belted out “Stadium,” a song he wrote himself. That or Nick Jonas’s 2015 single “Levels.”

Instead, it came when the pop star Katy Perry, a judge on the show, surprised him by kissing him smack on the lips, moments before his audition. He had never been kissed before.

“I was a tad bit uncomfortable,” Mr. Glaze said by phone this week, after the incident aired on the season premiere. His first kiss was a rite of passage he had been putting off with consideration. “I wanted to save it for my first relationship,” he said. “I wanted it to be special.”

“Would I have done it if she said, ‘Would you kiss me?’ No, I would have said no,” he said. “I know a lot of guys would be like, ‘Heck yeah!’ But for me, I was raised in a conservative family and I was uncomfortable immediately. I wanted my first kiss to be special.”

[...] When he returned home, Mr. Glaze worked through his feelings about the kiss by talking to his friends. “They agreed with me that it didn’t really count,” he said. “It was lip contact versus a romantic situation with someone you care about. That’s what a real first kiss is.”

He said he does not feel he was sexually harassed and is grateful to Ms. Perry for tweeting about him.

Lash
 
  2  
Thu 15 Mar, 2018 09:04 am
@Olivier5,
A lot of people are criticizing her. I think it’s justified.

If their genders were switched, the outcry would be magnified.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 15 Mar, 2018 10:01 am
@Lash,
Quote:
If their genders were switched, the outcry would be magnified.

That is true, but men are more forgiving of these sorts of things than women, perhaps because it happens to them less often? We don't tend to think that "feeling uncomfortable" is such a bid deal worthy of lambasting the person who made us feel so.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 3 Apr, 2018 06:33 am
Another suicide. Oh well...

Quote:
Sweden’s #metoo movement has come under attack after the suicide of its most prominent target.

For 16 years Benny Fredriksson was artistic director of Stockholm’s Kulturhuset Stadsteatern, the city’s leading arts and culture centre.

Last December, Fredriksson, husband of Swedish opera star Anne Sofie von Otter, resigned after media reports that he sexually abused employees and had turned the theatre into his own personal “dictatorship”.

Sweden’s Aftonbladet daily accused him of pressing a woman to either have an abortion or forfeit a role. Another woman spoke of being forced to rehearse naked, while a third said the director suggested she work as a freelance for not taking on a role with sex scenes.

The paper quoted 40 unnamed people saying “everyone is afraid of him”, while in the rival Expressen he was called a “despot” and “a little Hitler”. The allegations against the 58 year old continued on social media after he resigned in December. 

Last week in Sydney, accompanying his wife on singing engagements, he took his own life.

The news of his suicide has rocked his homeland, and raised questions about the reach – and aims – of the #metoo movement in Sweden. This week a city investigation which commenced after the allegations emerged found no evidence of sexual misconduct by Fredriksson. 

On the contrary, the report presented in part on Tuesday said the claims against him – particularly the abortion allegation – were misleading.

“Benny abandoned his life’s work abruptly as a result of a boundless media campaign,” said Sture Carlsson, interim head of the centre. “It was both terribly sad and unfair. With him, it created a wound that could not heal. It’s a big tragedy.”

Nature of reporting

On December 4th, Sweden’s Aftonbladet published a major report into Fredriksson, after interviewing 40 people who had worked with him in the culture centre. Since Fredriksson’s suicide, however, the Aftonbladet has come under attack for the nature of its reporting.

Actor Karina Ericsson Wärn was interviewed by the newspaper but, after she had nothing negative to report, she said she was not included. 

Another actor told Swedish broadcaster SVT how the Aftonbladetjournalist “lost interest” in their interview when no negative stories were forthcoming. “This was a mob, they were looking for scandal,” said Leif Andrée.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 14 Apr, 2018 02:48 am
Junot Díaz wrote this essay for the New Yorker on what being raped as a child did to him and people around him. Long but a must read, as Bernie would say.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-silence-the-legacy-of-childhood-trauma
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 14 May, 2018 12:57 pm
@Olivier5,
That was quick...

Quote:
Friday: Junot Díaz gets ambushed at the Sydney Writers Festival with accusations of misconduct.

Saturday: he flees the country, his scheduled appearances, including one at The Wheeler Centre in Melbourne, cancelled.

Sunday: two US booksellers remove Diaz's books from its shelves.

Monday: the Pulitzer board has a quiet word with him — which also makes the news.


https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/why-i-m-uneasy-about-this-chapter-in-the-metoo-revolution-20180511-p4zeoh.html
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 24 May, 2018 02:31 am


Moses Farrow speaks out against his mother's abuse:

https://mosesfarrow.blogspot.it/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html?m=1
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Thu 24 May, 2018 03:00 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:


Quote:
I wanted my first kiss to be special.”



Like Millhouse's.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig056zO1nf4[/youtube]
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Thu 24 May, 2018 04:33 am
MeToo makes the abusers feel bad. The abusers made their targets for abuse feel bad. If the abused can't complain the abusers will never be forced to confront their own bad behavior. That many abusers themselves had been victims of abuse does not make it okay for them to continue this pattern of abuse. The cycle has to stop somewhere. In some cases we can feel sorry for the abusers, but not to the extent the abused are silenced.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Thu 24 May, 2018 05:43 am
@izzythepush,


For some reason this didn't show.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2018 06:10 am
@edgarblythe,
I do feel sorry for Mia Farrow's kids and hope they all get free of that cycle of abuse. Two of them committed suicide though.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2018 02:10 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
This Is Not Just About Junot Díaz

by Linda Martín Alcoff , 16 May 2018
Professor of philosophy at the City University of New York, Hunter College, and the author of “Rape and Resistance.”

For those of us who have been fighting for decades against the oppression, emotional manipulation and brutalizing of women, as well as the murders, misrepresentations and wrongful imprisonment of all people of color, the case of the Dominican-American author Junot Díaz is a particularly difficult one.

This week I signed an open letter, along with a group of Latina scholars and writers, that criticizes the media thrashing of Mr. Díaz that has taken place since accusations of sexist behavior and sexual misconduct against him became widely public.

In the letter, we make clear that we by no means dismiss these accusations — which include forcibly kissing the writer Zinzi Clemmons and verbally abusing other women — or the serious damaging effects of the sort of behavior of which Mr. Díaz has been accused. But we do object to what we characterize in the letter as “a full-blown media-harassment campaign” that has followed the accusations, in which the writer has been cast as “a bizarre person, a sexual predator, a virulent misogynist, an abuser and an aggressor.”

While the episode has so far focused on Mr. Díaz, I also believe that it forcefully raises a broader issue: That we have a responsibility to think about the future — specifically, a future in which repentant sexists might have a place.

[...] Social media and traditional media are imperfect mechanisms for establishing truth or enhancing understanding. We need to enact alternative ways to interact with repentant sexists, to imagine productive roles for them — just as former gang members can educate young people in their communities on the topic of gang violence.

Can we hold people to account at the same time as we acknowledge their own victimization? Can we remain aware of multiple forms of oppression in our analysis? Can we demand more of a structural and systemic analysis without reducing individual responsibility? Can we respect the rage we are hearing as well as plan for a different future? I believe we must.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/opinion/junot-diaz-metoo.html

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2018 04:21 pm
Quote:
Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein is expected to surrender to New York police on sexual misconduct charges, US media report.

He faces arrest on Friday following an investigation, the reports say.

He has been hit with numerous allegations, including rape and sexual assault, but has denied non-consensual sex with anyone.

It would be the first time Weinstein has been charged since the accusations emerged.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44247722<br /> <br />
Lash
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2018 06:20 pm
@izzythepush,
It’s about time.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 25 May, 2018 12:30 am
@Lash,
It is.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 6 Jun, 2018 10:03 am
Some jerks get away with it. Some don't.
0 Replies
 
 

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