14
   

Me Too

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Tue 6 Feb, 2018 02:35 pm
Let him Maxsplain it to ya, folks.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 6 Feb, 2018 02:50 pm
Part of a much longer article, follow link for rest and pictures.

Quote:
A century ago, after years of campaigning, women over the age of 30 who owned property were given the right to vote in the UK.

But for many thousands of women, it was not a moment of celebration.

Known as the anti-suffrage movement, these women had been working to oppose the suffragettes.

They believed women didn't have the capacity to understand politics, and portrayed the suffragettes as a group of "ugly" women and "spinsters".

The Anti-Suffrage League was founded in 1908 by Mary Humphrey Ward, with support from two men: Lord Curzon and William Cremer.

A year later, it was announced that more than 250,000 people, both men and women, had signed a petition against giving women the vote.

Writing in The Queen in 1908, one "opponent", as they were described in the article, said they saw the campaign for the vote as a "prelude to a social revolution" that would set society back.

"We believe in the division of functions as the keystone of civilisation," the piece continued.

"It is as if the animals on the farm should insist on changing places - the cows insist upon drawing the coach, while the horses strive in vain to chew the cud and ruminate."

Historian Kathy Atherton says people nowadays can find it "surprising" that women were involved in an anti-suffrage movement, but that it's important to "put yourself in their shoes".

"There would have been a general acceptance that women were intellectually inferior and emotional - and women would have believed that as well as men - so they didn't have the capacity to make political judgements," she says.

"It's a really hierarchical society and the white male is at the top of the heap.

"There's a fear that you're upsetting the natural order of things, even going so far as thinking the colonies would be affected if they felt that Britain was being ruled by women."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42704341
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Tue 6 Feb, 2018 03:08 pm
Why has this become a thread about Suffrage? I agree with the right to vote. I don't think there is anyone to argue with on this topic.

One thing I hold against the Suffragette's is that some of them connected it to pretty ugly beliefs in White Supremacy... but that, as they say, is history. I still agree with their goal of winning the right to vote for women.

The point is that you can separate your views. Just because one disagrees with the views that modern feminism has on gender and sexuality doesn't mean one can't agree with Woman's suffrage. And just because you agree with Woman's suffrage doesn't make you a White Supremacist. They are separate issues.

People in an ideological bubble want the simplistic security of all-or-nothing views. The real world is a little more complex than that.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Tue 6 Feb, 2018 04:43 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Let him Maxsplain it to ya, folks.


Maxplaining!.... I love it Edgar.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 02:09 am
The centenary of women getting the vote tells us how far we've come, and Me Too tells us how far we still have to go.

This story is from the same day.

Quote:
A man has been jailed for murdering his ex-girlfriend by stabbing her 75 times in her car.

Molly McLaren, 23, died in a "frenzied" attack at the Dockside shopping centre in Chatham, Kent, on 29 June.

Joshua Stimpson, 26, had admitted manslaughter but denied murder before his trial at Maidstone Crown Court.

Sentencing him to a serve a minimum of 26 years in prison, Judge Adele Williams said: "This was a cruel, calculated and cowardly act."

The judge told Stimpson, of Wouldham High Street in Rochester, he may never be released for his "wickedness".

She added: "You slit her throat while repeatedly stabbing her.

"You were determined to punish her for finishing with you. You were seeking revenge."

It took the jury less than four hours to convict Stimpson, who had been in a seven-month relationship with Ms McLaren before she ended it two weeks before her death.

The court heard after the relationship finished, Stimpson posted derogatory messages about Ms McLaren on social media.

On the day of the murder he turned up at the gym she was in and waited for her to get into her car before he launched his attack.

As well as the murder weapon, police recovered two Stanley knives and a pick axe from Stimpson's car at the scene.

The judge told Stimpson: "You are a highly-dangerous young man and you will pose a very considerable risk to women for a very considerable period in the future."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-42947446
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 05:03 am
@izzythepush,
These simplistic cherry picked stories don't enlighten, they are meant to strengthen the ideological bubble. Right now, in 33% of domestic murders the murderer is a woman. I suppose when women make progress, they will raise that number to 50% of domestic murders being committed by women.

Again.... Izzy isn't talking about specific policy or any realistic plan to make society better. His focus is on crimes committed by men in support of his ideological bias.

We are not even talking about MeToo any more, it is just a broad list of political hot buttons. Or maybe.... that is what MeToo has become.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 06:03 am
I think I hear the sound of the lesser spotted control freak shitting its pants because it can't dictate what is, and what is not discussed on this thread.

Well it can carry on shitting because I'll talk about anything and everything I think is relevant.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 06:08 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Well it can carry on shitting because I'll talk about anything and everything I think is relevant.


Harrumph!. Well, you sure showed me! LOL
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 06:18 am
The point here is that MeToo is not a conversation. It is a simplistic political campaign to push an ideological narrative.

Like any political narrative, it has some truth to it. The problem is that it can't be questioned. The adherents look for any story to support their narrative. They ignore any facts that represent a different point of view. And they attack any person, including women, who dare to question their narrative.

I would love a discussion about reasonable ways to make society better, or more fair. This discussion should talk about specific policy ideas; "provide funds for investigating reports" instead of general ideological declarations; "get men to stop being rapists".

No one is suggesting anything further than getting men to shut up and listen (which is kind of ironic given the amount of talking that Izzy and Edgar have been doing on this thread) and providing stories about how horrible men are.

This is an ideological push from one political faction. That is why it is dying out. A movement needs to draw people in, rather than attacking and dividing them.
engineer
 
  3  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 06:33 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The point here is that MeToo is not a conversation.

I don't see how anyone could come to this conclusion. Me Too has generated a large number of thoughtful editorials and articles coming down in many different places. You have posted some of them here. It has started lots of conversations on Twitter and Facebook and gotten a lot of people to come forward and share stories about sexual harassment. This is something that people are talking about, not always agreeing about. That you have been able to post articles supporting your position shows that it hasn't been one sided and you haven't even been alone on this thread. That sounds like a conversation.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 07:16 am
@engineer,
I disagree, Engineer. People making dissenting opinions are being attacked quite personally by the MeToo movement. Lena Dunham even got yelled at for questioning a specific accusation at a friend, even she had to back down. A conversation implies that people are able to consider other points of view even from people with whom you disagree.

You have angry White people in Red "MAGA" hats on one side, and angry White people in Pink "Pussy" hats on the other side.

It just angry White people yelling at each other. I don't call that a conversation.
engineer
 
  3  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 08:22 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You have angry White people in Red "MAGA" hats on one side, and angry White people in Pink "Pussy" hats on the other side.

I don't doubt that you see it that way, but I don't see those extremes at all, either in the public sphere or on this thread. If I had to go down this thread and put the posts into a red or pink bucket, I don't think many would fit very well. Same with the editorials I read. That sounds like a pretty gross exaggeration of the conversation, the exact type of exaggerations that you rail against.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 08:37 am
@engineer,
You and I might be in different threads then? In this thread you have a pretty close bubble... Edgar, Izzy, Ehbeth and several others who are all saying pretty much the same things while upthumbing each other.

You have just Olivier and I. We aren't really in the Red Hat section in real life, but Izzy and Edgar don't make that distinction. I don't see anyone, other than Olivier and I, who have any difference of opinion... and most of them think the personal attacks against people who disagree are justified.


0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 08:58 am
Another day, another Max show. Ho hum.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 08:59 am
@edgarblythe,
Since Olivier isn't around, I am the only one outside of the group think to have any type of dialog. The rest of the people here are ideological clones. Without me, you guys just endlessly cut and paste articles from liberal blogs that support what you all already believe.

Of course, we could't have a Max show without you Edgar... you keep responding which is what makes it fun. You make a great side man.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Wed 7 Feb, 2018 10:50 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Another day, another Max show. Ho hum.


I am feeling generous-- let's call it the "Max and Edgar Show!".
(Although Edgarsplaining doesn't roll off the tongue the way "maxsplaining" does. But, then again... I suppose that "mansplaining" works in both of our cases.)

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2018 07:05 am
Meanwhile, in the French feminine press:

Quote:
After #MeToo, a Revolution of Desire?
ELLE, February 7, 2018

In Washington on January 20, Natalie Portman delivered a powerful speech [... where], she said, the time for a "revolution of desire" has come. Writer Camille Emmanuelle*, a specialist in eroticism, sheds light on this new perspective, far from any puritan retreat.

ELLE: Is the expression of feminine desire freeing up?

Camille Emmanuelle: With the #MeToo movement, a breach has opened, to say that we refuse to be dependent on the desire of men. After this collective refusal of women to be only sexual objects, it is certainly time for them to claim the status of sexual subjects! It is important that female desire expresses itself in the form of "no, I do not want that" as much as in the form of "yes, that's what I want".

ELLE: Where do we start?

Camille Emmanuelle: We need to learn to say "yes", without false modesty! Yes, I want you to take me like that, yes, I want that, yes, I like you talking to me that way, yes, that's how I reach orgasm. I would like us to teach the younger generations consent in this way too.

ELLE: How can men support this "revolution of desire"?

Camille Emmanuelle: It's not about giving to our partners a "user notice" for our desires, our fantasies, but rather about creating a climate conducive to dialogue. When one is curious, one realizes that feminine pleasure is not so complicated, cerebral and sacred as that... And male pleasure can be much more subtle than some people think!

* Author of "Sexpowerment" (Ed. Anne Carrière)
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2018 10:47 am
@Olivier5,
(was that a google translation?)

looks like good common sense there
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2018 10:49 am
@ehBeth,
Google translate + some finetuning by meself.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 8 Feb, 2018 10:53 am
@Olivier5,
cool - it reads a bit EFl-y, but not quite the standard
 

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