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SHARE YOUR CITY'S PEACE RALLY HERE.

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 05:33 pm
edgarB

Thank you. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 05:36 pm
PDiddie

Great shot!
Lots more to come, I hope!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 05:41 pm
A Yahoo! news compendium of today's global protests, with a slideshow of photos of the millions of people who marched against an unprovoked invasion of Iraq:

Yahoo!

What a wonderful day. Happy Valentine's everyone. See you tomorrow.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 05:47 pm
PDiddie

Thank you!
What a fantastic link!
That'll keep us all busy for hours. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 05:50 pm
If any of you have the time, it'd be good to read any media editorial comments after the rallies.
It'd be very interesting to read the different perspectives from around the world.
0 Replies
 
moondoggy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:05 pm
we had several thousand in Byron (pop. 8000) Saturday, marching from the PO to the beach, we took my 5yr old, it was very cool, layed back, everyone singing "all we are saying, is give peace a chance", very hard to get agro with the tone and tempo of that song

last week my partner joined the 750 women in the "disrobe to disarm" protest in the hills

very cool

2 million at one protest in spain
the biggest ever public protest in London

finally, finally, sainity resurfaces
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:05 pm
trespassers will wrote:
nimh wrote:
An opinion poll today, after Blix's presentation, shows a further shift against war in Holland. Now 75% is against military intervention (up from 61% after Powell's speech); only 12% thinks the US can legitimately attack already. Figures change should Bush succeed in getting a UN mandate, but not overwhelmingly: in that case 52% considers an attack justified (down from 68%). 30% are against war under any conditions.

I want to go on the record that--based on what information I have seen at this time--I am opposed to a war in Holland.


LOL!!!

OK - Thanks. That's a very reassuring thought. ANyway, I'm sure y'all got what I meant to write. Non-native speaker and all that. I dont think what the Dutch think is particularly important either - I do think public opinion around Europe and the world should matter. Of which I provided a sample example from where I live.
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:16 pm
I apologize in advance for appearing dense, but, how is it significant what Holland, Europe, or anyone else in the world "feels" about the steps America or any other nation takes to stamp out real and certain threats against their country and people.

I will pose to the participants of this forum what I posed to my good friend Anon, on another:

Why is all of this anti-war sentiment pointed towards the United States, Britain and specifically GWB rather than against the one person who can ensure that there is no war in Iraq, Saddam Hussein?

He, and he alone can stop the ravages of war if he just gives up the weapons.

Why is that apparently lost on so many?

snood: That's funny, I LOVE Trespassers Will!!!

edgar: Setting aside the obvious irony of pugilistic activity on a peace thread, can't you lighten up for a sec and see the humor?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:18 pm
I don't see humor in aggression.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:20 pm
If Iraq truly posed the sort of threat Bush claims I would be for taking him out also. I have seen no credible evidence that he is capable of that sort of adventurism. Therefore, it is Bush the aggressor who must be called on to show restraint.
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:33 pm
We have documented evidence that 1,000 tons of biological and chemical agents have been manufactured by Iraq, yet we continue to get no evidence or proof of their location or their destruction.

I respectfully disagree, edgar, as to whom the aggressor in this action is.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:46 pm
Well of course if we all agreed there would have been no need for protests today. I can't accept that Iraq has the capability of doing anything to us. We keep a presence there all the time. We don't need a war to put a bomb on proven sites of wmd. Even if it should turn out that I'm wrong, what harm to let the inspectors do their job? Must Bush get his panties so in a wad?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 06:49 pm
maxsdadeo wrote:
I apologize in advance for appearing dense, but, how is it significant what Holland, Europe, or anyone else in the world "feels" about the steps America or any other nation takes to stamp out real and certain threats against their country and people.


It concerns us, too. It will impact our lives, our societies, on many different levels. The war Bush Jr is proposing to start will impact the degree of stability and security in the world, to a much greater degree, it seems at the moment, than Iraq now could. Partly that's simply because, you know, "high trees catch a lot of wind" - if you are as powerrful as the US, you cannot do anything without impacting everybody's lives. Partly it's because of the USs self-professed leading role in the world - Bush is on a mission. In a way he is very idealist, more idealistic even than his opponents, who insist on following the procedures and rules of international law, respecting some kind of balance of powers, practicing compromise etc. He does not just present the war against Iraq as a matter of national security - he presents it as if he's saving the world from evil. What if "the world" doesnt see it? What if the world doesnt want to be saved - not in this way - considers the saving more dangerous than that which they are to be saved from?

Lenin once wanted to save the world and its populations from iminent doom by starting war (revolution) - to hell with practical objections or 'small-scale' suffering - the goal justifies the means - and he was going to 'save' the proletariat even if it didnt want to be, and didnt see the need to be, and refused to vote to be. I feel like Lenins proletariat a bit now - somebody is endangering my world, my habitat and that of those I love, out of some grand vision of good and evil that he cant actually find (m)any of those involved (the neighbouring countries, many of the Iraqi exiles, the populations of the allies who are to send their soldiers in) to subscribe to.

Hussein doesnt want war right now (though I'm sure he will want to later) - this war is not coming at his instigation. As for the threats the US are claiming to act against, to speak with Joschka Fischer: I am not convinced. And neither are the actual officials assigned to research it, it seems. Blix himself said that no ties with AL-Qaeda were apparent. The "proofs" presented by Powell c.s. - on this and on the WMD - are purely circumstantial, even according to his own collaborators ("there is no smoking gun"). Blix himself said that thus far, there are no indications that Iraq has WMD to "give up". It might have 'em - but for now, no proof, no lead even. It speaks volumes that Powell c.s. are trumpeting 'proof' like rockets that can reach just a few miles further than the limited range accorded by the US-led coalition earlier, or pipes that could be used for building WMD, or pictures of the Iraqi's "hiding" things from the UN observers that Blix later brushed aside saying they could equally show routine manoeuvres - nothing proven, no believers, not the UN inspectors, not many of the US's traditional allies, not the Nobleprize-winning scientists who collectively called on Bush not to attack on the basis of this circumstantial proof ...

So we are supposed to create - condone and partake in - war and with it, havoc in the region, mass hoistility among Muslims worldwide and a global economic crisis, on the basis of mere assumptions - we're simply to trust Bush on them. The anti-war sentiment is pointed towards the United States because at this moment, the US are the only country steering for a war.

I'm glad it's you who's writing so I can relativate a bit what I feel when I read when you're writing, b/c to ask how it is "significant" what "anyone else in the world" thinks or feels about the wars and follow-up risks the US are going to launch in their backyard, seems staggeringly - arrogant.

I mean - significant? If, in some hazy future, the EU would decide to start a risky and all-out war against a Mexico or Cuba it has decided poses an imminent threat to the world - when neither you nor your country's government would be convinced by their arguments - when it would set off an intense resentment of all things Western, and possibly a new inflow into anti-Western terrorist movements that would make no distinction between EU and US, across Latin-America - would you want your and your country's "feelings" to be considered "significant"??
0 Replies
 
moondoggy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:07 pm
there goes a perfectly good peace rally thread...


oh well
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:11 pm
Moony - sorry. To get back to the topic:

having chosen not to participate, but having watched the news of the demo in Amsterdam (half an hour by train from here) with an increasing sense of involvement, we decided to 'disconnect' for a moment and go to the movies - 8 Mile. "Alas" - next to us in the seats, a girl asks a friend on the cellphone whether she went to demonstrate, cause she had. On our way back we pass a girl on a bike with a big placard with a peace sign. Earlier on, in the supermarket a man passed by with a "no war in Iraq" sign on his cap.

And now I'll shuttup for a while ;-)
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:11 pm
People can't just let us get together without injecting this stuff. Sorry.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:12 pm
Nimh, you are my hero!

That was a great post !

All the Europeans I have ever known have at some time expressed to me what it is like to be in a world with a superpower like the USA. You said it better than any of them.

Go back students and read the last paragraph nimh wrote. Perfectly clear.

Joe Nation
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:14 pm
This
\
Quote:
So we are supposed to create - condone and partake in - war and with it, havoc in the region, mass hoistility among Muslims worldwide and a global economic crisis, on the basis of mere assumptions - we're simply to trust Bush on them. The anti-war sentiment is pointed towards the United States because at this moment, the US are the only country steering for a war.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:16 pm
Yahoo News had a lead story saying tha millions protested today. That lead has been replaced by one that calls it thousands.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Feb, 2003 07:32 pm
Joanne -- Both Kerrville and F'bg have had peace rallies. I know the Kerrville one to have been quite substantial.
0 Replies
 
 

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