The same WP commentator I mentioned above said (quoting by heart) that it was "the European Left" that was against war, agitating as it was against "the American Right, which they see represented in George Bush" (unlike Americans, presumably, who apparently consider Bush a centrist or something). That's nonsense of course. President Chirac is the figurehead of the French Right, the Gaullist leader who routed the Left in last year's elections. The Belgium government is a broad coalition of left (socialdemocrats, big, and Greens, small) and right (VLD, big). In Germany, opposition Christian Democrats, though criticising Schroeder's posturing, have had to promise again and again that they, too, oppose a war without UN mandate.
Finally, the commentator was asked what whould happen after the war. Well, if victory would be swift and order could be restored quickly, "yes, France and Germany could find themselves losing a lot of their influence in the new Europe". End of interview - nobody asked what would happen if that were not the case ... That's CNN ...
It is this overwhelming, excusez-le-mot, stupidity, this pigheadedness - and sheer arrogance, as in, we'll go to war even if all the rest of the world is against, but we'll give you (united nations) the chance to remain a "relevant" institution by rubberstamping our decision - that has me all fired up to demonstrate.
However, I will not. Because yes - I do, like most Europeans now, consider the US at this moment a bigger threat to world peace than Iraq. By the way they're going about this, they're doing more harm to the world's (future) safety and stability than even inactivity would have done. But. That doesnt mean I'm against military action against Iraq per se. I am all for throwing Saddam out. In my mind, Bush is not so much doing the wrong thing - he's just doing it all wrong. Strategy, attitude, end goals, follow-up plans, timing, formulated casus belli - none of that is right. But if I were to demonstrate, I would feel that I was saying: "hands off from Saddam - no war, ever" - and that's not what I mean at all.
that, nimh, was an extremely eloquent and heartfelt post.
Thanks for some great "euro-perspective".
A perspective, I might add, that we don't hear much about!
Joe - Lighten up. I can't help it if I find the idea of a peacenic punching out a warmonger funny. I just do. And it may be beneath you, but I may well be futher down the evolutionary ladder, so get off my back, Eloi. :wink:
It shows overt aggression toward those he disgrees with to speak of punching people. An attempt at intimidation in fact.
edgar - Yeah, that's what it shows.
(Can somebody back a truck up and unload some sense of humor for these people?)
Until the humor is at your expense, or ridiculing things you hold dear, huh?
Sadly, TW, it has been on back order around here for months.
Don't look now, but snood has another mood!
According to ANP press agency there were 45,000 protesters in Amsterdam today; according to the national TV news 70,000.
In London of course numbers were wholly different, but then in London the mayor, the bishops, the trade union, the centrist LibDem opposition party and a host of Labour backbenchers took part. 500,000 demonstrators, it seems - the newspaper spoke of the "biggest demonstration since WW2" - bigger than the anti-Vietnam and anti-nukes demos, thus.
In Rome, 1,000,000. I was in Florence a week or two ago and the "PACE" (Peace) rainbow flag hung from many balconies and windows.
The biggest demonstrations in Europe were in Spain, where, in the multi-party parliament, PM Aznar is supported only by his own party in his choice to support Bush. According to El Pais online, organisers claim more than 3,000,000 demonstrators in Barcelona and Madrid, with state estimates of 1,000,000 in the two cities. Plus 200,000 in Sevilla, 100,000 in Las Palmas, 70,000 in Cadiz, 50-200,000 in Oviedo ...
I wonder how it is on ABC, NBC etc. - here, the whole first half of the 8 0'clock news was devoted to the worldwide demonstrations. How is coverage there?
An opinion poll today, after Blix's presentation, shows a further shift against war in Holland. Now 75% is against military intervention (up from 61% after Powell's speech); only 12% thinks the US can legitimately attack already. Figures change should Bush succeed in getting a UN mandate, but not overwhelmingly: in that case 52% considers an attack justified (down from 68%). 30% are against war under any conditions.
York PA!
The one in York PA went well.
It wasn't really a rally as much as it was a "Visibility", we stood with our signs at an intersection. There were about 2-3 dozen people there.
It went pretty well, the only problem was that what I assume was the proprietor of the Amoco station (ironic, IMHO, that we were in an area that had 2-3 gas stations) and her son or husband seemed to take umbrage with our being there. I swear the cops figured out that SHE was more the problem than US!
We got a lot of positive feedback, oddly enough from people in SUV's--go figure.
Also, look for me to have a way to e-mail the UN Security Council Countries to urge them to let the inspections continue and to oppose any US/British war plans.
This was Bush either has egg on his face from having to submit to world opinion, or by going it alone comes off as a bully!
The great city of Emerson, Arkansas will be having a Peace Festival on June 27 and 28. Highlights include the fishing derby, rotary tiller races and the crowing of the King and Queen of Peace.
Oops...my bad. That's the Emerson
Peas Festival, with the King and Queen of
Peas. Still, sounds like fun.
nimh wrote:An opinion poll today, after Blix's presentation, shows a further shift against war in Holland. Now 75% is against military intervention (up from 61% after Powell's speech); only 12% thinks the US can legitimately attack already. Figures change should Bush succeed in getting a UN mandate, but not overwhelmingly: in that case 52% considers an attack justified (down from 68%). 30% are against war under any conditions.
I want to go on the record that--based on what information I have seen at this time--I am opposed to a war in Holland.
Humor is one thing. Invading a thread to disrupt the flow with talking about punching out people is totally different.
No mood, Max - I simply don't like TW, that's all.
Stinger
Thank you for the links. The world feels a much smaller place!
Bravo Ulster!
Bravo London!
nimh
I'll bet you there are more than 500 Thousand demonstrating in the streets of Amsterdam!
Certainly hope so!
In terms of the groups supporting the rally here in Melbourne, Oz: It was such a mixture of people. Definitely not any conspicuous political groups - The old, the young, Middle Eastern people, lots of Asian Australians, parents with children, trade unionists etc ... Certainly not a "ratbag" crowd. The most heartening thing was the HUGE number of young people. Some came straight from school & were still in their uniforms. They were such a prominent presence. It made me feel confident of the future
& so proud of them, for their concern & involvement.
Agreed: that was a very clear & thoughtful post. Well said!
NeoGuin
Courageous of you to demonstrate in such a small group at your "visibility".
Congratulations for making a stand on your commitments.
