1
   

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB OUR NATION IS IN PERIL

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2004 08:57 am
Rafick wrote:
Arrest the President Now!

Enough 9/11 evidence exists to hang Bush, imprison thousands.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/arrest_bush_now.htm


This is silly and shows a poor understanding of the behaviour of a structure in a severe fire.

Paradoxically a steel building is less able to withstand a fire than a substantial wooden building. The reason for that is the wood retains the strength of the timber members inside as the outsides char. Steel at the same temperature goes plastic, softens and collapses. The wood-framed building stays up longer.

So you can forget the demolition by explosives theory, it didn't happen.

However I think Bush knew the strike was about to happen. I think it was allowed to happen.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2004 10:27 am
http://www.tektonics.org/log_beg.gif

Quote:
... once a belief or expectation is found, especially one that resolves uncomfortable uncertainty, it biases the observer to notice new information that confirms the belief, and to discount evidence to the contrary. This self-perpetuating mechanism consolidates the original error and builds up an overconfidence in which the arguments of opponents are seen as too fragmentary to undo the adopted belief ...

The Psychology of the Psychic: Marks, D. & Kammann, R.
Prometheus Books, Amherst, N.Y (1979)

See also:.

Asking the Right Questions: A Guide to Critical Thinking: Browne, M. & Keeley, S.
Prentice-Hall, Upper Saddle River, NJ (1997)

Becoming a Critical Thinker - A Guide for the New Millennium: Carroll, T.
Pearson, Boston, Ma (2000)

Attacking Faulty Reasoning: A Practical Guide to Fallacy-Free Arguments (4th ed): Damer, T.
Wadsworth, Florence, Ky (2001)

Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life (8th ed.): Kahane, H.
Wadsworth, Florence, Ky (1997)

Critical Thinking: Moore, B.
Mayfield, Palo Alto, Ca (2000)
0 Replies
 
ForeverYoung
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2004 11:12 am
LOL, Timber!

..........and it's otherwise known as THE BIG LIE.........
0 Replies
 
Rafick
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2004 01:14 pm
McTag wrote:
Rafick wrote:
Arrest the President Now!

Paradoxically a steel building is less able to withstand a fire than a substantial wooden building. The reason for that is the wood retains the strength of the timber members inside as the outsides char. Steel at the same temperature goes plastic, softens and collapses. The wood-framed building stays up longer.

So you can forget the demolition by explosives theory, it didn't happen.

However I think Bush knew the strike was about to happen. I think it was allowed to happen.


Claim the prize ! Laughing
Sept. 11 Conspiracy Theorist Offers $100,000 Prize

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7105614

"Jimmy Walter has spent more than $3 million promoting a conspiracy theory the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States were "an inside job" and he is offering more cash to anyone who proves him wrong.
The millionaire activist is so convinced of a government cover-up he is offering a $100,000 reward to any engineering student who can prove the World Trade Center buildings crashed the way the government says.
"Of course, we expect no winners," Walter, 57, heir to an $11 million fortune from his father's home building business, said in a telephone interview from California on Wednesday.
He said a panel of expert engineers would judge submissions from the students.
Next month, he also launches a nationwide contest seeking alternative theories from college and high school students about why New York's World Trade Center collapsed. The contest offers $10,000 to the best alternative theory, with 100 runner-up awards of $1,000. Winners will be chosen next June.
Various official investigations give no credence to Walter's theory. A Sept. 11 commission spokesman did not return calls seeking comment.
Walter insists there had to be explosives planted in the twin towers to cause them to fall as they did, and also rejects the official explanation for the damage done at the Pentagon.
"We have all the proof," said Walter, citing videotapes and testimony from witnesses.
"It wasn't 19 screw-ups from Saudi Arabia who couldn't pass flight school who defeated the United States with a set of box cutters," he said. He dismissed the official Sept. 11 commission report, saying, "I don't trust any of these 'facts."'
Walter has spent millions of dollars to bolster support for his case, running full-page ads in The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker and Newsweek, as well as alternative newspapers and 30-second TV spots.
He points to a Zogby poll he commissioned last summer that showed 66 percent of New Yorkers wanted the 9/11 investigation reopened.
Walter has spent about 30 percent of his net worth on his efforts.
"I am a patriot fighting the real traitors who are destroying our democracy. I resent it when they call me delusional," he said." - Reuters (12/15/04)
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2004 01:41 pm
timberlandko wrote:
http://www.tektonics.org/log_beg.gif

Quote:
... once a belief or expectation is found, especially one that resolves uncomfortable uncertainty, it biases the observer to notice new information that confirms the belief, and to discount evidence to the contrary. This self-perpetuating mechanism consolidates the original error and builds up an overconfidence in which the arguments of opponents are seen as too fragmentary to undo the adopted belief ...

The Psychology of the Psychic: Marks, D. & Kammann, R.
Prometheus Books, Amherst, N.Y (1979)

See also:.

Asking the Right Questions: A Guide to Critical Thinking: Browne, M. & Keeley, S.
Prentice-Hall, Upper Saddle River, NJ (1997)

Becoming a Critical Thinker - A Guide for the New Millennium: Carroll, T.
Pearson, Boston, Ma (2000)

Attacking Faulty Reasoning: A Practical Guide to Fallacy-Free Arguments (4th ed): Damer, T.
Wadsworth, Florence, Ky (2001)

Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life (8th ed.): Kahane, H.
Wadsworth, Florence, Ky (1997)

Critical Thinking: Moore, B.
Mayfield, Palo Alto, Ca (2000)


Timber, I accuse you of being in the pay of the government as you are always quick to come down from a great height on any such opinion. You are so keen on the psychobabble I think you "protest too much".
So, I think you are a plant. But I'm less sure of that that of GWBs involvement with the runup to 9-11, I admit. Just a hunch.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2004 02:31 pm
Walters is a loon with no claim to his inherited (and rapidly dwindling - by some accounts so far nearly half-squandered - something in and of itself now a matter of fiducio-legal inquiry) fortune beyond accident of birth, and his "Prize" is a fraud; it exists only as anecdote popular among conspiracist websites and publications, but is to be found in no official filing and/or escrow, nor is any qualified/recognized disinterested-3rd-party determination/verification protocol in place.

For some real research, try:

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation: Eagar, T. & Musso, C.
Symposium Report, JOM: The Member Journal of The Minerals, Metals & Materials Society, Warrendale, Pa (Periodical - 53 [12] [2001], pp. 8-11)


See also: Related Articles, ibid.:
Engineering Groups Gather Evidence, Provide Support in Clean-up: TMS Editors

Better Materials Can Reduce the Threat from Terrorism: Maréchaux, T.

An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7: Barnett, J., Biederman R., & Sisson, R. Jr.
0 Replies
 
Rafick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 07:04 am
timberlandko wrote:
Walters is a loon with no claim to his inherited (and rapidly dwindling - by some accounts so far nearly half-squandered - something in and of itself now a matter of fiducio-legal inquiry) fortune beyond accident of birth, and his "Prize" is a fraud; it exists only as anecdote popular among conspiracist websites and publications, but is to be found in no official filing and/or escrow, nor is any qualified/recognized disinterested-3rd-party determination/verification protocol in place.

For some real research, try:

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation: Eagar, T. & Musso, C.
Symposium Report, JOM: The Member Journal of The Minerals, Metals & Materials Society, Warrendale, Pa (Periodical - 53 [12] [2001], pp. 8-11)


See also: Related Articles, ibid.:
Engineering Groups Gather Evidence, Provide Support in Clean-up: TMS Editors

Better Materials Can Reduce the Threat from Terrorism: Maréchaux, T.

An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7: Barnett, J., Biederman R., & Sisson, R. Jr.




take a look at this:
AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF 9-11 AND THE WAR ON TERRORISM by: Dr. Albert D. Pastore PhD.

TOTAL DESTRUCTION. A PERFECT DEMOLITION OF WTC 1 & 2

http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/Pastore_Investigation_of_%209-11/chapter_13--collapse_of_the_WTC.htm
0 Replies
 
Rafick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 07:24 am
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/shake.html

9/11 Video:
A Ground Shake Preceding WTC 1's Collapse
0 Replies
 
Rafick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 07:36 am
The 'Truss Theory':
A Fantasy Concocted to Conceal a Demolition

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/trusstheory.html
0 Replies
 
ForeverYoung
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 07:42 am
And we never landed on the moon, right? I know that because of the movie, Capricorn One.

http://www.tektonics.org/log_beg.gif
0 Replies
 
Rafick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 08:41 am
ForeverYoung wrote:
And we never landed on the moon, right? I know that because of the movie, Capricorn One.

http://www.tektonics.org/log_beg.gif


Facts about the Moon

An average days temperature on the moon ranges from 260° F to 280° F, too for film to survive. At those temperatures, film crinkles up into a ball.

About 20 miles about the Earth, there is a radiation belt named the Van Allen belt. No human can get through this belt, If you try than you get hit with 300+ rads of radiation. Unless they are surrounded on each side by 4 feet on lead.

There are millions of micro-metors traveling at speeds up to 6000 MPH, which would tear the ship to pieces.

If you look at the pictures/video of people on the moon, you will never see more than 3 stars.

When the LEM set down on the Lunar surface, it gave out 3000 lb. worth of thrust. This would have created a massive hole underneath the Lunar Module, but in pictures of the Lunar Module, the ground underneath is untouched.

An average days temperature on the moon ranges from 260° F to 280° F, too for film to survive. At those temperatures, film crinkles up into a ball.

About 20 miles about the Earth, there is a radiation belt named the Van Allen belt. No human can get through this belt, If you try than you get hit with 300+ rads of radiation. Unless they are surrounded on each side by 4 feet on lead.

There are millions of micro-metors traveling at speeds up to 6000 MPH, which would tear the ship to pieces.

If you look at the pictures/video of people on the moon, you will never see more than 3 stars.

When the LEM set down on the Lunar surface, it gave out 3000 lb. worth of thrust. This would have created a massive hole underneath the Lunar Module, but in pictures of the Lunar Module, the ground underneath is untouched.

An average days temperature on the moon ranges from 260° F to 280° F, too for film to survive. At those temperatures, film crinkles up into a ball.

About 20 miles about the Earth, there is a radiation belt named the Van Allen belt. No human can get through this belt, If you try than you get hit with 300+ rads of radiation. Unless they are surrounded on each side by 4 feet on lead.

There are millions of micro-metors traveling at speeds up to 6000 MPH, which would tear the ship to pieces.

If you look at the pictures/video of people on the moon, you will never see more than 3 stars.

When the LEM set down on the Lunar surface, it gave out 3000 lb. worth of thrust. This would have created a massive hole underneath the Lunar Module, but in pictures of the Lunar Module, the ground underneath is untouched.

But why would they do it?

MONEY. NASA gathered about 30 billion dollars pretending to go to the moon. That means that someone is getting a lot of money in their pockets.

ATTENTION. If you ever saw the movie "Wag the Dog", the president has sexual relations with a 12 year old. This information goes out to the media 1 week before elections. So, to get the publics mind off of the little Girl, the president stages a war with Albania. The moon shots were the same concept. People did not like what was going on with the Vietnam war, so, to get the publics mind off of all the bad things going on in Vietnam, the US faked a moon landing. If you check your dates, we abruptly stopped going to the moon around the same time the Vietnam War Ended. (

TO WIN THE SPACE RACE -- Back in the late 60's early 70's, Russia and the US were in a heated battle to see, well, pretty much who was better. Once the US realized that they couldn't send a man to the moon, they couldn't just say, "OK Russia, we give up."
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 10:01 am
Let's cut to the chase here, Rafick. Is there any conspiracy theory that you don't believe?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 10:33 am
But then there's THIS from Christmas Eve 2004:

NGUYEN: We want to go back now to that video that we're just getting in from Donald Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq, a surprise visit, he is at Camp Victory here in Baghdad in this video speaking to soldiers in the mess hall. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And to change that way of living, would strike at the very essence of our country.

And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be.

And that is exactly what we cannot allow to happen...."

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html (bottom of page)


OOPSIE! Did Rumsfeld just admit the Pennsylvania plane was shot down???
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 10:58 am
I think you put the emphasis in the wrong place. The words "Shot down..." is the sort of mistake a person might easily make who has just gotten off a flight half way around the world, and who has been operating under almost unbelievable pressure for well over a year. By seizing upon a malaprop, you may overlook the real message that the Secretary was trying to deliver.

"... And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be.

And that is exactly what we cannot allow to happen...."
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 11:36 am
No, Asherman, that part is now just blah, blah, blah to me. I've heard all the propaganda I can take for one lifetime.. I don't need "pumping up"... it's a friggin war, not a football game.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 11:38 am
I think if an airliner were shot down, it would be eyewitnessed, and it would be hard to suppress that kind of story.
I'm pretty sure the airliner was not shot down.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 11:41 am
Rafick wrote:
take a look at this:
AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF 9-11 AND THE WAR ON TERRORISM by: Dr. Albert D. Pastore PhD.

TOTAL DESTRUCTION. A PERFECT DEMOLITION OF WTC 1 & 2

http://www.the7thfire.com/9-11/Pastore_Investigation_of_%209-11/chapter_13--collapse_of_the_WTC.htm


I submit, rafick, that you've been had. Your "Dr. Pastore" is as much a fraud and loon as your Mr. Walters.

7thFire, the webring home of that Pastore piece you cite: Anti-semitic claptrap featured prominently by a hysteria/hate soapbox which, among other goodies, offers The Vibe Machine, a device to heal your cells, the BioElectric Shield, an attractive pendant which will protect you from those nasty, evil, invisible rays, and information on Cancelling your creditcard debt (presumably after the payments for The Vibe Machine and the amazing amulet have cleared).

Dandelion Books: Pastore's Publisher A vanity press. 'Nuff said.

A discussion of Pastore's credentials: Unsatisfying.

Further research disloses no accreditted research foundation, alumni association, teaching or lecturing post (in fact nothing in any capacity at any institution of learning whatsoever), professional organization, other publications - trade, professional, or academic, boards, panels, or gardening club with which Pastore is associated. It appears Pastore exists only in context of his rantings.
0 Replies
 
Rafick
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 12:32 pm
squinney wrote:
But then there's THIS from Christmas Eve 2004:

NGUYEN: We want to go back now to that video that we're just getting in from Donald Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq, a surprise visit, he is at Camp Victory here in Baghdad in this video speaking to soldiers in the mess hall. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And to change that way of living, would strike at the very essence of our country.

And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be.

And that is exactly what we cannot allow to happen...."

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html (bottom of page)


OOPSIE! Did Rumsfeld just admit the Pennsylvania plane was shot down???


THANX FOR THAT Laughing
guess i will have to pass it on to the whole world !
well done sqinney Very Happy
0 Replies
 
ForeverYoung
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 12:50 pm
um

Rafick

..........about your sig line...........'the' truth? whose truth? Your perseveration on all of these conspiracy theories honestly has me curious over whether you have some felt need to disbelieve? .....something like the flip side of the coin where others have a strong need to believe, or have faith, without question......

Could you post anything about that? Or, do you see my POV as hopelessly naive?

Thanks.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Dec, 2004 03:08 pm
Is it time yet? :razz:
0 Replies
 
 

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