Iraq through Iraqis' eyes

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Ah, I think I must have stumbled upon the thread that inspired FreeDuck to start this one.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I think we all hold more view on one side or the other. I can't image anybody who was split 50-50 would have any convictions about anything.

You ever considered the possibility that there might be more than two sides, Fox?

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Nimh, I'm sure somewhere there is an analysis of all that footage that Iraqis made of Iraqis talking about the Iraqi experience.

It is so damn discouraging that so few of you even WANT to hear Iraqis saying anything nice about Americans or being positive about their chances. Why is it you think that so many of you seem to be so eager for negative news and points of view and so quick to point it out--so quick to resent those who are positive and hopeful?

The U.S. media is painting the Netherlands as a shambles of terrorist activity and literally falling apart at the seams. How accurate is that assessment do you think? And if you disagree with it, how accurate do you think the news is that you have been getting re Iraq?

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Definitely spare yourself the effort.

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Here's a link to some Iraqi blogs. Maybe we can get a better idea there.

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

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Foxfyre wrote:

It is so damn discouraging that so few of you even WANT to hear Iraqis saying anything nice about Americans or being positive about their chances. Why is it you think that so many of you seem to be so eager for negative news and points of view and so quick to point it out--so quick to resent those who are positive and hopeful?

Why is it, you think, that so many of you claim to be all concerned and empathic with the Iraqi population, but cant be bothered to actually ever look up anything actually written by any Iraqi, instead just relying on ever more of the same kind of rhetorical reiterations and armchair analyses from afar by US-based postulating conservative columnists and op-ed writers about how happy "the Iraqis" must really be?

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Nimh wrote

Quote:

You ever considered the possibility that there might be more than two sides, Fox?

Of course Nimh. But we all take one or the other don't we? I choose to take the side that wants the Iraqi people to be free and independent and in charge of their own destiny. I reject the side that thinks that is impossible and that Iraq would have been better off if we hadn't taken out Saddam Hussein.

Nimh wrote

Quote:

Why is it, you think, that so many of you claim to be all concerned and empathic with the Iraqi population, but cant be bothered to actually ever look up anything actually written by any Iraqi, instead just relying on ever more of the same kind of rhetorical reiterations and armchair analyses from afar by US-based postulating conservative columnists and op-ed writers about how happy "the Iraqis" must really be?

Why do you assume that we have not actually looked up anything actually written by an Iraqi? I actually have read a lot. We aren't operating in a vacuum here. Just last week I heard first hand from a young Iraqi woman visiting in the U.S. what life has been like for her and her family and neighbors and what they think about it all. I also talk to Americans who have actually been there and seen first hand.

Why are you so quick to believe those who have a negative view and so eager to dismiss those who speak positively?

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One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite Iraqis:

"I still hope to visit America some day, but I would love this to happen normally, and not through exceptional procedures and I would be so happy to meet all my American friends and to say thank you to the American people."

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/archives/2004_12_01_iraqthemodel_archive.html#110321716542273754

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Foxfyre wrote:

I think we all hold more view on one side or the other. I can't image anybody who was split 50-50 would have any convictions about anything.

Even if you would momentarily buy into the inanity of the just-two-sides perspective this doesnt actually make any sense.

Imagine someone who holds 50% of the supposed conservative opinions - say, on taxes, welfare, health care, social security - and 50% of the supposed liberal opinions - say, on gays, the Iraq war, abortion, affirmative action. Then you'd get someone with a lot of clear convictions.

Thanks for the link, FreeDuck.

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Foxfyre wrote:

.

It is so damn discouraging that so few of you even WANT to hear Iraqis saying anything nice about Americans or being positive about their chances.

Are you talking about the same Iraqis who earlier, when Saddam was the guy holding the guns they feared, told the world that they loved that little devil to death?

So now we are the ones holding the guns...and deciding if they get food or blasted to eternity...and if you search, you can find some who will say nice things about us? Who will thank us for their situation?

C'mon, Fox!!!!

Wake up!

If someone is standing in **** up to their chin while someone else points a gun at them...and the guy in the **** says he just loves being where he is and thanks the person with the gun for helping him get into the ****...

...are you going to argue that his take is more acceptable than the take of some New York Times reporter who insists the guy is in deep ****?????

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The difference Frank is that if they did not say they loved Saddam they were beheaded or shot or slowly lowered feet first into an acid bath or had their wife raped before their very eyes or had their right hand chopped off without anesthesia.

They can say any damn thing they want to us Americans including go to hell and call us any name in the book.....and all with impunity.

If you can't see the difference, then you really really are a liberal Smile

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No, Fox, I am not a liberal...but I am not f*****g stupid either.

For one thing...they don't know what they can and cannot get away with as far as speaking their minds. For all you know...and what reason dictates...is that they are every bit as afraid of us as they ever were of Saddam.

And don't for a second think they CAN speak their minds with the impunity you suppose....because I dare say that occupied people have been shot to death on the spot for being too mouthy...and some of the people doing the shooting over the years have been Americans.

Don't be so goddam naive.

In any case...any objective look at Iraq shows a country in turmoil and in chaos. People are being shot, killed, blown up, threatened...and all in the name of rescue.

They are in **** up to their chins...and there are guns pointed at them...

...and you are accepting the "oh, I love this and thank you for putting me here" over "they are in **** up to their chins."

Boy...you people truly are kneejerk. Thank whatever exists that not all Americans of the past have been as pathetic as you folks are.

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It is sad to see someone devolve completely.

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Lash wrote:

It is sad to see someone devolve completely.

At least he evolved in the first place. Go back under your bridge, Lash.

You had a nice digression there with the whole liberal/conservative thing, but we're back on track discussing Iraq.

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You people?

Any objective look at America shows a country in turmoil and chaos. People are being shot, killed, blown up threatened... all in the name of freedom.

Your analogy is only partly true Frank because you choose to look ONLY at the parts of Iraq in conflict. you people only choose to absorb the death and violence of the situation. It's easy to do and I understand why you people do it. You do not want to see success. You want America to fail because then you can gloat about it on a webpage.

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I will note that there hasn't been much response to FreeDucks listing:

FreeDuck wrote:

Harm:

instability
destruction of infrastructure
no forseeable opportunity to leave the country
killing lots and lots of Iraqis
destroying what was left of US credibility
focusing on something that was not a threat
spending over 250 billion dollars
severe unemployment and poverty in Iraq
collective psychological damage to the psyche of the Iraqi population
inspiring Iraq's neighbors to quickly develop a nuclear weapon in order to avoid invasion
providing legitimacy to Osama bin Laden's complaints of US agression

Good:

elections

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McGentrix wrote:

Your analogy is only partly true Frank because you choose to look ONLY at the parts of Iraq in conflict. you people only choose to absorb the death and violence of the situation. It's easy to do and I understand why you people do it. You do not want to see success. You want America to fail because then you can gloat about it on a webpage.

I have seen Frank state quite vehemently that he hopes that his predictions for Iraq turn out to be false.

Take a breath, McG.

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Lash wrote:

It is sad to see someone devolve completely.

BTW, I find your new avatar to be quite apt.

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DrewDad wrote:

Lash wrote:
It is sad to see someone devolve completely.

At least he evolved in the first place. Go back under your bridge, Lash.

Hmmm. It seems you are unaware that issuing a personal insult with my name attached is against the TOS. Or maybe you think they don't apply to you.

You had a nice digression there with the whole liberal/conservative thing, but we're back on track discussing Iraq.

Interesting that you think you can tell me what to do. Is this your board?

Shouldn't cuckolds spend more time changing diapers? Just a general question...

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Drewdad writes

Quote:

I will note that there hasn't been much response to FreeDucks listing:

For me that's because it's the same list the liberals have been using to paint Iraq as black and chaotic and bleak and illegal and....and...and..... as they can for months and months and months now.

There are other much longer lists we could make about all the really great things that are happening in Iraq, all the good that is being done, and the gratitude expressed to our troops and contractors there by the Iraqi people. But the anti-war liberals don't seem to want to see, think about, or acknowledge that.

The young Iraqi woman I met last week was absolutely glowing when she recounted how it felt to walk into the passport place and buy her very own passport all by herself. Under Saddam that would have been impossible. No big deal you say? It sure was for her.

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Iraq through Iraqis' eyes

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