Quit picking on the French

You seem to be taking the personalising of countries a bit far, Lash. Countries are not people. Ergo, some French person might never have treated an American badly in his life, and still now pick up on all the garbage thats put out about his country in the States. Should he not complain? Or do we now suddenly carry the responsibility for the sins of all our compatriots? "Some other Dutch guy once hit me so dont you dare complain if I hit you back now"? I'm sorry, but I'd go, what dya mean, "back"? <shrugs>

As for French waiters and stuff - I dunno, I've been to France a lot ... The Parisians are notoriously snobbish, of course. I've met a few kind souls in there too, but mostly they're notoriously rude to any outsider - and that, mind you, goes for anyone from the province as much as someone from abroad. But in the province, they're usually perfectly nice. Well, you get the same pattern in other countries too, of course. Those in the capital cities, the white ones at least, the I'm-part-of-the-beautiful-people-crowd, look down their nose on outsiders. Same in downtown London. I hear New Yorkers are pretty rude too. But when you go out to, say, Sheffield (or I dunno, Albuquerque, or Avignon - I found Avignon a perfectly hospitable French town, and neighbouring, smaller still, Aix-en-Provence and Arles even more so), things look up a lot more. In France its all a bit supersized - the snobbishness in general, but also the contrast between Paris and province.

Another thing to take into account is that the further from tourist spots you get, the less likely the people will be to see you with either contempt or as prey. So the more your holiday is a week-long whizz around the country's highlights (which is the kind of travelling c.i. - and most American tourists - seems to mostly do, in their understandable hunger to see as much as possible, having travelled so far to get there), the larger the likelihood of being treated badly. Thats true anywhere, but perhaps even more so in France, where the contrasts are clearly bigger.

All in all I still dont see no reason in any of that to buy the "Because some Parisian waiters were rude to me that means 'the French' beat me up so I can now say justifiably anything I want about all of them in return" line of thought, much, at all. Not rational (captain).

I've even met some Brits who told me 'they' were treated pretty bad in Paris. It's not only in isolated cases - it's too frequent for it to be anything else but bad manners toward foreign visitors. I'm as human as the next guy; just like to be treated with some civility whereever I visit. I'm not asking them to bend backwards - for cry'n out loud. Yes, I've met some nice people in Paris; several even helped me with directions. Most of us are talking about the people in the service industry - not it's people in general.

Yep, Parisian waiters are a pain in the ass - I already said that, just now - they're like that to any foreigner (so yes, Brits as well - or in particular), as well as to anyone from the province. Or even just suburbs. Parisian snobbishness. Got the same kind of snob-aggro from fashionable city students.

Take a little longer time to explore the country, go to some smaller towns, be the only foreigner somewhere, try out your French on some older people sitting on a bench at the square, you get a wholly different picture. Same as everywhere really, but yeah, definitely more so in France.

What any of that is supposed to say about "the French" or what they owe the Americans or anything, I dunno.

I don't think the French owes the Americans or anybody else anything, but I know there's a village in France that celebrates their liberation from the Germans every year when the Japanese American batallion, the 442 infantry, save them. They even named a street after them, and the older generation pass on the story to their young.

That's cool ... <smiles>

When this unified unit arrived in Europe, they still had to prove their competence, as well as their loyalty to white soldiers and commanding officers. However, after liberating the small town of Bruyeres in Southern France and rescuing the "Lost Battalion" (141st), Japanese American soldiers gained the respect of their fellow soldiers, the townspeople of Bruyeres, and particularily the members of the "Lost Battalion." For their performance, the 442nd has been recognized as the most decorated unit in United States history. 18,000 total awards were bestowed upon the 442nd, including 9,500 Purple Hearts, 52 Distinguished Service Crosses, Seven Distinguished Unit Citations, but only one Congressional Medal of Honor (Crost, Honor by Fire. 179). Although their impeccable service earned the 442nd the respect of their fellow soldiers, they were not perceived in the same way by American society when they returned to the West Coast.

Immediately following their return, the 442nd realized that the attitudes of many Americans had not changed. World War II veterans of Japanese ancestry were welcomed home by signs that read, "No Japs Allowed," and "No Japs Wanted." In many cases, veterans were denied service in local shops and restaurants, and their homes and property were often vandalized or set on fire.

<nods> Amazing.

<shakes head>

There are similar villages which honour their Australian/British/American liberators - and treasure the cemeteries of the dead soldiers.

I spent two weeks in France a couple of years ago, and the only rude people I encountered were <blushing> Americans.

If you ask me, we've got a lot of nerve calling the French "rude."

Bookmark... looks like fun. Only skimmed this page so far and that is indeed a heart-warming story C.I. The news loves that one like "It's a wonderful life" and "Miracle on 34th st." at Christmas time.

Eva, There are "rude" people in almost every culture. There's nothing wrong with calling rude people rude - whether they be French or Americans. We've all heard of the "ugly" American, and I see enough of that during my travels to say they are not only rude, but stupid as well.

I agree, c.i.

It amazes me that so many people travel to other countries and then expect them to be like home when they get there. Then they become rude and angry when it doesn't happen.

I saw Americans making fun of the French language in front of Frenchmen. I saw Americans berating French waiters for not putting enough ice in their drinks, American-style. I saw Americans ignore shopkeepers who greeted them warmly. They totally ignored local customs and demanded their own way. I was appalled. No wonder we have such a bad name.

All I had to do was learn a few key phrases...chief among them "excusez-moi" and "merci"...and smile brightly, and the French were only to happy to help me navigate their culture.

What's up with that ice thing anyway? It's like "Non, no ice for you".

non ice, wow London all over again.

Not only non ice, warm beer. LOL

Too much ice kills the taste of the drink.

The English have "hated" the French since 1066, won a few wars, lost a few wars, won a few football games, lost a lot of football games. France sits around 22 miles away at its nearest point, and yet to the average Briton, it's just the place you fly over on the way to Spain. We hate them, they hate us, but the whole arrangement has worked fine for a millenium. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Hello, I'm new on this thread but you aren't surprised to have me here, are you?

The mood of this thread in not yet going insane, so let us talk like civilized people.

Next time one of you is coming to Paris, I'll be glad to go out with him/her, just to note the veracity of those old clichés I've never seen. Like this one about "smell" and "laundry". (you crazy, guys?)

(Those who know the way it really is, are also welcome!)

I have every year, american, british, german and many other country friends, coming home.

If that was the way some say so, why will them keep coming year after year?

As you know, France is most current tourist destination in the world.

As long as I know, many come back again. Why so?

And the myth of French men being great lovers is just that - a myth Mind you, I have just had two !!

<so far>

yeah, I always blame the "other" too.