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Diversity of Everything but Thought

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:48 am


Media Bias for those not sheilding their eyes.


----

Can't believe there are people who STILL refuse to admit this.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:56 am
When you can define where the center is, please let the politicians know. They're dying to be able to position themselves correctly....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:00 am
How very snotty of you . . . and your material suffers as it has throughout this thread, from a complete lack of reliable evidence. Hearsay and innuendo do not constitute evidence.


In the media bias study you here cite, it appears that you did not read their disclaimer which immediately preceeds the appendices:

Groseclose and Milyo wrote:
Related, in our attempts to explain these patterns, we in no way claim to have provided the last word on a satisfactory theory. Nor do we claim to have performed an exhaustive review of potential theories in the literature. Rather, the main goal of our research is simply to demonstrate that it is possible to create an objective measure of the slant of the news. Once this is done, as we hope we have demonstrated in this section, it is easy to raise a host of theoretical issues to which such a measure can be applied.


I know that in your eagerness to prove your case, you most likely just overlooked this.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:21 am
Setanta wrote:
Hearsay and innuendo do not constitute evidence.


Hearsay evidence is, of course, evidence. But I'm sure you knew that.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:28 am
And as has been already pointed out in this thread, it is neither good evidence, nor compelling evidence. For anyone reading here who is slow on the uptake, that means it is unconvincing evidence.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:37 am
Setanta wrote:
And as has been already pointed out in this thread, it is neither good evidence, nor compelling evidence. For anyone reading here who is slow on the uptake, that means it is unconvincing evidence.


So you understand that it is evidence. For the sake of clarity, the next time you might just say what you mean. That would help those of us trying to decipher your musings.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:38 am
It may help you in future to understand that what you are or are not capable of deciphering is a matter of indifference to me.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:53 am
Then that explains why your posts are often cryptic and undecipherable.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:59 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Then that explains why your posts are often cryptic and undecipherable.

Your evidence for that is?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 08:02 am
dyslexia wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Then that explains why your posts are often cryptic and undecipherable.

Your evidence for that is?


... purely anecdotal. :wink:
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 08:04 am
groovy, it's very welcome to find the cards on the table rather than up someone's sleeve.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 08:33 am
Lash's Report wrote:
To compute our measure, we count the times that a media outlet cites various think tanks and other policy groups.[1] We compare this with the times that members of Congress cite the same think tanks in their speeches on the floor of the House and Senate. By comparing the citation patterns we can construct an ADA score for each media outlet.

....we do we need to read policy reports of the think tank or analyze its position on various issues to determine its ideology. Instead, we simply observe the ADA scores of the members of Congress who cite the think tank....


See, here is where you run into problems.

This group just counts how many times members of Congress cite a certain think tank, and note how many times the newspapers and other media outlets cite the same think tank.

This "survey", such as it is, is not concerned with the quality actually written in the reports of the think tank.

But what if some of these think tanks put out unalderated garbage which some members of Congress nevertheless find convenient to quote?

Are the media outlets to be chided for not citing this report?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 08:37 am
It's complete bull, is what it is. One way of looking at things that shows the media to be 'liberal.'

The challenge still stands that your Opinion: piece is exactly that, Lash; Opinion. There was no data of use inside to your argument...

I can't believe that you Republicans present stuff like this and expect it to be taken as evidence that your argument is correct. It really shows that you don't understand what an argument is, and that's sad, considering the 4.0 and all...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 08:44 am
I can think of at least one example where the "prestigious" think tank, the Cato Institute, produced a ludicrous report. This was in the late 90's.

In chiding the Congressional budget Office for their estimates, the think tank said that a report the Congressional Budget Office released in 1991 or 1992 predicted huge budget deficits which never came to pass.

This is true. It did.

However, the Cato Institute report never got around to pointing out that the budget deficit plunged in 1993-Clinton's first year-and eventually went into surplus.

Here is a graph of the budget deficit. Notice how it goes up, up, up until Clinton takes office in 1993, then it goes down, down, down until it finally hits surplus:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/images/budget/fy99/ch4_1.gif

Now, any estimate of future budget deficits made in 1991 or 1992 would have no way of knowing that the deficit would start shrinking in 1993. It would have to go by the rate of the increase in the previous years, which of course would yield extrememly high results.

Yet, the Cato Institute left all this out of it's report, and instead just said the Congressional Budget Office estimates were way, way out of line with what happened.

Obviously, even a junior high school student could see that, judging by the economic situation when the estimates were made, which was pre-Clinton, the estimates would have to be high.

Now, if this sort of half-baked tripe is the kind of thing the "prestigious" Cato Institute puts out, why on earth should any media outlet quote them or pay them any mind at all?

On the basis of what I have seen here, to ignore the Cato Institute is not being biased in your reporting-it's simply doing your job!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:10 am
Kelticwizard writes
Quote:
Now, if this sort of half-baked tripe is the kind of thing the "prestigious" Cato Institute puts out, why on earth should any media outlet quote them or pay them any mind at all?


You give the average media outlet/reporter way more credit for doing any serious investigation or analysis than I do. Some of the syndicated columnists--not all--actually do some homework before writing, but the average reporters seem to be mostly just copying each other.

And you are chiding the CATO Institute's 'failure' (if that is a fact) to follow up on their predictions as tripe? And giving all those media outlets you seem to approve who so rarely acknoweldge their missteps, miscalculations, underestimations, a pass? Especially when their missteps, miscalculations, underestimations, etc. cast aspersions on the target de jour?

What would be the Cato Institute's motive for chiding the Congressional Budget Office for faulty projections? Or were they just making the point the the CBO projections must be considered educated guesses at best? At the time the CBO was making those projections, there was no Contract with America or Republican revolution that was a factor in the reduced deficits and ultimate balanced budget. (Sometimes I think we should keep the GOP majority in Congress but elect Democrat presidents just for that reason. )

So later, if the Cato Institute was remiss in reporting reduced deficits and the ultimate balanced budget, would you say that was not to give credit to Clinton? Or was it not to give credit to the GOP?

My observations are that the Cato Institute generally gets it right a whole lot more than they get it wrong.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:21 am
Lash wrote:


Media Bias for those not sheilding their eyes.


----

Can't believe there are people who STILL refuse to admit this.


This report has been discussed earlier. What did you find, in your research, in the way of peer review?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:29 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Setanta wrote:
And as has been already pointed out in this thread, it is neither good evidence, nor compelling evidence. For anyone reading here who is slow on the uptake, that means it is unconvincing evidence.


So you understand that it is evidence. For the sake of clarity, the next time you might just say what you mean. That would help those of us trying to decipher your musings.


Why play this silly game? There is 'anecdotal evidence' that Jews are criminal, that Bush snorted cocaine plus got a young girl pregnant and paid for her abortion, that witches eat babies in the moonlit forests of Connecticut, that Ronald Reagan and wife based policy decisions on the advices forwarded by their astrologer.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:41 am
blatham wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Setanta wrote:
And as has been already pointed out in this thread, it is neither good evidence, nor compelling evidence. For anyone reading here who is slow on the uptake, that means it is unconvincing evidence.


So you understand that it is evidence. For the sake of clarity, the next time you might just say what you mean. That would help those of us trying to decipher your musings.


Why play this silly game? There is 'anecdotal evidence' that Jews are criminal, that Bush snorted cocaine plus got a young girl pregnant and paid for her abortion, that witches eat babies in the moonlit forests of Connecticut, that Ronald Reagan and wife based policy decisions on the advices forwarded by their astrologer.


And you can choose to believe that evidence, or to give it no weight. What "silly game" are you talking about?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:54 am
The silly game of proposing that the anecdotal evidence presented in the case amounts to more than diddly squat.

Fox
Quote:
My observations are that the Cato Institute generally gets it right a whole lot more than they get it wrong.


I'm sure you do, as the Cato institute is a right-wing think tank.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:01 am
This entire thread is floated upon "weigtless" evidence . . . say, are we in zero g ? ! ? ! ?
0 Replies
 
 

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