Diversity of Everything but Thought

Very well said Foxfyre.

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fox

It's time for you to go back to university. Face the devil head-on.

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McGentrix wrote:

Very well said Foxfyre.

No, McG. What she said is vacuous. She doesn't know what she is talking about but pretends (and worse, actually assumes) that she does. Her notions of evidence are juvenile and her inability to understand what makes a proper inference could drive anyone to distraction. She has a fixed idea and there is nothing...nothing...going to shake it.

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blatham wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Very well said Foxfyre.

No, McG. What she said is vacuous. She doesn't know what she is talking about but pretends (and worse, actually assumes) that she does. Her notions of evidence are juvenile and her inability to understand what makes a proper inference could drive anyone to distraction. She has a fixed idea and there is nothing...nothing...going to shake it.

Perhaps you should append a signature like mine reinforcing the idea that what you say is merely opinion and has no basis in fact. You Canadians have sure been bitter lately. I wonder why that is?

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utter frustration in the face of prolonged and persistent atrocities, maybe?

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Lousy neighbors.

The opinion held by anyone isn't terribly important, mcg. One could believe that humans were seeded here by some advanced race from Arcturus and I'd consider that pretty unlikely and wonder why the heck the person might be happy in believing such a thing.

But when an opinion leads to proposed 'remedies' which affect us all, then opinion becomes important. Is it educated? Is it dogmatic? Is it demonstrable?

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Lola wrote:

utter frustration in the face of prolonged and persistent atrocities, maybe?

I understand the healthcare system is not all it's cracked up to be and poutine isn't all that great, but atrocities? Hardly.

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Our contemporary Tories prefer the term `ordered liberty' to `freedom'. The word `freedom' scares them; it has too much of a paleolithic ring to it.

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smelly masses and all

howdy dys

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Blatham said

Quote:

No, McG. What (Foxfyre) said is vacuous. She doesn't know what she is talking about but pretends (and worse, actually assumes) that she does. Her notions of evidence are juvenile and her inability to understand what makes a proper inference could drive anyone to distraction. She has a fixed idea and there is nothing...nothing...going to shake it

.

Well Mr. Blatham is a very intelligent and educated person so this comment along with his other cutting, insulting, and often cruel comments must be true. However,

Quote:

"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that; no ordinary man could be such a fool." -- Eric Blair, aka George Orwell

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I adore victims, they bleed the most when swimming with sharks. Adds colour to anotherwise drab sea.

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I'll bet you do. You seem to identify with them whenever it best suits you.

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that's why I painted all my mirrors black.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Blatham said

Quote:
No, McG. What (Foxfyre) said is vacuous. She doesn't know what she is talking about but pretends (and worse, actually assumes) that she does. Her notions of evidence are juvenile and her inability to understand what makes a proper inference could drive anyone to distraction. She has a fixed idea and there is nothing...nothing...going to shake it
.

Well Mr. Blatham is a very intelligent and educated person so this comment along with his other cutting, insulting, and often cruel comments must be true. However,

Quote:
"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that; no ordinary man could be such a fool." -- Eric Blair, aka George Orwell

foxfyre

My education and my intelligence disappoint me at nearly every turn. You and I were fond of each other, once. You have an active mind and a sense of civic duty and in these things, we are alike. But you hold and forward allegiances and ideas which stand in direct opposition to particular principles which I think essential to a truly free and just society. In such matters, ettiquette becomes a secondary or tertiary concern. I wish you no unhappiness. I don't even wish you to shut up. I merely wish you to fail in forwarding bad ideas. And viewing education from a partisan or doctrinal stance is one of the worst ideas I know of.

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Actually,

Quote:

No, McG. What she said is vacuous. She doesn't know what she is talking about but pretends (and worse, actually assumes) that she does. Her notions of evidence are juvenile and her inability to understand what makes a proper inference could drive anyone to distraction. She has a fixed idea and there is nothing...nothing...going to shake it.

No offense intended Fox, but I agree with pretty much all of this.

You have, exactly as Blatham pointed out, a Fixed Idea in your head that kids are being 'brainwashed' by Liberals in universities. The fact that you haven't produced any evidence that this is true doesn't shake your belief in the slightest.

It is very frustrating to have a serious conversation with someone who consistently ignores rules of logic and instead retreats back to the Idea every time s/he is challenged.

Your new Idea, that kids who go to Liberal high schools (and how do we have any idea about the veracity of this? I sure don't know) then go to Liberal colleges are never presented with opposing viewpoints is asinine. All they have to do is follow politics in the slightest.

It has not been my experience, nor the experience of many if not MOST of the kids in college these days that there are 'liberal' professors trying to brainwash us. THis whole idea didn't start because there were a lot of kids screaming about how biased their profs were; it started because some pundits came up with the Idea, and then started to search for evidence to support said Idea. That search continues, but that doesn't stop them crowing about as if they have proof; there is no proof whatsoever that children/young adults are being harmed by the Liberalness of their education, or even that liberalness makes up a large part of the average education.

If you don't understand basic rules of logic and argumentation, then perhaps you should go back to college as Blatham suggested and check the situation out for yourself. You could even go to Bob Jones University and see how Liberal the courses are there.

I've asked you before why you are so surprised that there are a preponderance of liberals in the Liberal Arts. Care to answer?

Cycloptichorn

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Well offense taken Cyclop since you know nothing of me, my background, my experience, my education, my I.Q., or apparently even my political and social convictions. Blatham said that he and were fond of each other once. And that is true when he was of a mind to at least ocnsider another point of view. But once he decided I was corrupt and immoral--precise words that he used--and concluded that I was unworthy of consideration and therefore was fit only to insult, it was pretty difficult to be affectionate or take him seriously at all as I believe those who debate via insult to be seriously lacking in rational thought anyway.

So in order to be able to enjoy my experience with A2K I have essentially not read most of his posts (as I have disregarded many of yours for much of the same reason for that matter) and have spent my time with intelligent and educated people who can formulate a reasoned argument without ad hominem attacks and insults.

You see, I believe in diversity of thought. And desite what Mr. Blatham continues to assert, I read a very wide variety of sources before I form an opinion about anything. The problem with you two is your rhetoric suggests you are incapable of seeing any point of view other than your own as having any merit whatsoever. It it follows, based on your rhetoric, that you view anybody who doesn't agree with you, unless they are of the 'intellectual crowd' as being stupid. You consider your own point of view, however much you can't support it, as the only logical point of view.

Well I certainly don't belong to the intellectual crowd, and I may be stupid, but I've done pretty okay with my own methods. And I don't take my marching orders from the arrogant, immature, insecure, poorly endowed, or just plain mean spirited.

And I do see diverity of thought as providing true education in the way that focus on a single ideology or point of view cannot.

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Hell, you'd better ignore this one too, then, Fox, I wouldn't want to ruin your A2K EXPERIENCE by doing anything silly like challenging your poor logic and faulty rhetoric.

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It it follows, based on your rhetoric, that you view anybody who doesn't agree with you, unless they are of the 'intellectual crowd' as being stupid. You consider your own point of view, however much you can't support it, as the only logical point of view.

This is categorically untrue, though it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you would simplify my beliefs and thoughts in this way.

I consider many, many who don't agree with me to be quite intelligent and well-spoken. In fact, I think there are several Conservatives or Republicans on here who know much, much more than I do about politics and history and put together quite convincing arguments to support your side, who follow the rules of Logic and argumentation consistently and carefully.

You have made the mistake of assuming that I don't consider anyone's ideas to be reasonable, logical, or acceptable if they disagree with mine because I don't accept your ideas which disagree with mine. It goes without saying that this is yet another logical fallacy on your part, as I don't disagree and look down upon Conservative or Republican ideas in general; merely your ideas, Fox, which often are poorly thought out, poorly presented, containing little or no logical stucture, and add little to the debate other than yet ANOTHER post informing us of FOX'S OPINIONS on XX subject. I'm f*cking tired of it, so is Blatham, so are a lot of us.

If you can't form a coherent or logical argument, do us a favor, and don't post anything, alright? As I said earlier, you present illogical ideas as logical ones, you don't respond to criticism or discussion about your ideas, and basically act like a 6 year old child anytime someone challenges one of your precious beliefs. What's the point of discussing issues if your opponent can't make it to the table?

Cycloptichorn

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Cyclop when you rise to the challenge of supporting your insults with facts, I'll take you seriously. Until then I will take you seriously only when you can forumulate reasoned arguments without resorting to ad hominem attacks. And now to avoid a pissing contest that will only get this thread locked AGAIN, I will not respond to any further ad hominem insults, attacks, innuendo, or petty sniping here.

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Well, I did that here, Fox:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1277783#1277783

And again, here:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1283625#1283625

Here, you respond but make a critical error in your logic:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1284210#1284210

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The conservatives here don't have to prove anything any more than the liberals do as the thesis was presented by a third party.

This is untrue; the thesis was presented by conservatives. You DO have to prove your point if you wish to support your point.

The idea that there haven't been reasonable attempts to discuss the issue and point out our objections to your methods is silly. What there hasn't been, in fact, is a reasonable attempt on your part to actually look at the quality of the evidence that you puport to be proof of your proposition and examine it for the critical failure that is inherent in the evidence that has been presented so far.

I even went so far as to list off for you what specific examples of evidence would bolster your argument, an argument that I disagree with!

Take a step back, for one second, and ask yourself if there is any merit in the things that I am saying. Let go of the Idea for a second and look at your argument based upon evidence alone, and I think you'll be unable to deny the fact that it is weak.

Cycloptichorn

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I have Cyclop. I have looked at the 'evidence' presented by the group who believe more diversity of thought on campus is important and I have looked at the 'evidence' presented by those who say we're all wet. Just adding up all the pros and cons my side is ahead. I'm very sorry if we aren't presenting our evidence in a form that is convincing to you. But you definitely haven't presented any rebuttal in a form that is convincing to me. I accept that you neither accept our evidence nor believe in the concept that more diversity on college campuses would produce better education. I even understand your reasons for your point of view. But, just purely based on points, we've made a better argument for our point of view than you have made for yours strictly based on our data and expert witnesses. So far you have not discredited our data or our witnesses, you have presented no data of your own, and the only 'expert witness' you guys have produced is Krugman and, to the best of my knowledge, he is not an educator. Our expert witnesses are.

(I do acknowledge that Krugman has been an educator, however, though he has not been affiliated with an institution of higher learning in the past decade I don't believe. But I acknowledge he has more credentials on this subject that the average political hack.)

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