0
   

Diversity of Everything but Thought

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 07:29 pm
Most 17 year olds wouldn't know slant or political bias if it hit them in the head with a two-by-four.

Hell. They don't know their Senator.


Or likely their state capitol.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 07:37 pm
As opposed to someone precisely your age, who sees it wherever it isn't?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 07:54 pm
blatham wrote:
dora17's experience is the precise match of the experiences of the near totality of us here who've been through years of university. And that's a lot of us.

DTOM

A lot of information on the PNAC here... http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=PNAC

It isn't a 'think tank' in the sense we used to understand that term - an objective or unbiased group of intellectuals/experts gathered together to study and understand. Rather, it is one of a very large number of bodies created to forward or popularize a particular set of political notions/policies, and to facilitate the implementation of those policies through media and organizational actions.


they are a scary bunch. that's why i'm so annoyed that they keep getting in so many of the chairs ripe for manipulation.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:11 pm
Scary they are indeed. The folks there constitute a lovely picture of the ties between this administration and the arms and oil industries. Neoconservatism provides a facilitating philosophy for policies that:
- keep those in power in power
- further concentrate the power and wealth accrued
- a philosophical justification for deceit and war and the establishment or furtherance of a political system which neither they nor we could accurately describe as democratic.

ps...they are getting those chairs as a matter of design
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:15 pm
Interesting comment, Lash.

I'd say most 17 year olds I know have a better understanding of current politics than many people in their 30's through 60's I find posting here. Perhaps I know an extraordinary set of 17 y.o's, or maybe things are different in Canada and Germany than in the U.S.?

Again, thanks to Dora for sharing her perspective.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:19 pm
Imagine that, a person of liberal persuasion failing to see the liberal slant in the education system... I bet if Dora were attending a scholl that had a conservative slant, she'd notice it.

It's very easy to overlook the opinions you agree with.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:19 pm
I wish the current crop of 17-19 year olds I am in contact with knew ...almost anything about American or international politics.

And, of course, in the US that demographic is more likely to be humiliated on Jaywalking than found in a voting booth.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:28 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Imagine that, a person of liberal persuasion failing to see the liberal slant in the education system... I bet if Dora were attending a scholl that had a conservative slant, she'd notice it.

It's very easy to overlook the opinions you agree with.


Wow. I've been waiting two long years for you guys to dig this argument from the barrel-bottom...."those people who have actually gone to university (which almost none of us have done) and say they didn't experience the sort of bias and indoctrination we say is present in universities (even though we haven't experienced it, not being attendees) can't be credited in their opinions because they've been so idoctrinated that they they missed it!"
0 Replies
 
dora17
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 09:43 pm
First, I notice that a lot of posts since mine are now refering to whether 17 year olds would notice political slant. Just to be certain that my handle isn't the source of the arbitrary age, the "17" has nothing to do w/ age. I am well out of high school, having decided to attend college only after quite a few years as a fulltime workin class schlub.

Next, my dear McG:
McGentrix wrote:
Imagine that, a person of liberal persuasion failing to see the liberal slant in the education system... I bet if Dora were attending a scholl that had a conservative slant, she'd notice it.

It's very easy to overlook the opinions you agree with.


As it happens, I don't think much of either of the major political parties in our country at the moment. There are politicians on both sides of the aisle that I like (and dislike), and there are many issues about which neither party reflects my point of view.

But besides my political orientation, how could you fail to notice which opinion a teacher (or anyone you're conversing with) is expressing if they are trying to persuade people to agree with them? in order to indoctrinate, you'd have to be pretty voiciferous with your opinions. I repeat, when my teachers discussed the election (the main time politics came up) they went out of their way to say that they didn't endorse any candidate, but just wanted young people to participate in their government. Post election, the only comments were that it was dissappointing to note that youth didn't vote any more than ever, despite the efforts of groups on both sides to motivate them. I flatter myself that i'd notice if I was being bludgeoned with opinions, even if I share them.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 09:46 pm
Bias and brainwashing can be very stealthy.

That is much stronger than the obvious, forceful bludgeoning.
0 Replies
 
dora17
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:33 am
Jeez, now that I realize there are stealthy ways of influencing people, I'm really gonna watch out for that Prof. Mesmero with his doctorate in Artful Manipulation. Thanks for the heads up on that, Lash.

Obviously there are subtler forms of manipulation, but my point was that when lecturing to an entire room full of people, especially about a topic that's so volatile right now that people's ears prick up when the least political thing is mentioned, it would be difficult to be very subtle about it. Yes, even among the oblivious 17-19 year old college crowd, the mention of politics is pretty charged right now. (Take for example the 18 year old guy behind me in history last semester who kicked my chair as hard as he could when I said I wasn't going to vote for Dubya. not kidding Smile )

Guess what? Most teachers are too busy trying to get thru their actual curriculum to give us our liberal brainwashing. I have had only one teacher this semester even mention politics, and that was in biology, referring to stem cell research. His opinion, nearly word for word: "It's a very difficult moral issue, and there are a lot of legitimate feelings against it. I can't give you any answers; all I can say is, however you feel about it, vote in the next election so you can have same influence over where we go with it." Am I just naievely missing the brainwashing there?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 01:00 am
blatham wrote:
Scary they are indeed. The folks there constitute a lovely picture of the ties between this administration and the arms and oil industries. Neoconservatism provides a facilitating philosophy for policies that:
- keep those in power in power
- further concentrate the power and wealth accrued
- a philosophical justification for deceit and war and the establishment or furtherance of a political system which neither they nor we could accurately describe as democratic.

ps...they are getting those chairs as a matter of design


yeah boy, you betcha.

i was struck by the first few words that koppel said when introducing his piece; "you can't really call it a conspiracy because it's happening in plain sight".

from the pain in the keester research i've done on this, the scenario i came up with is that bush isn't installing them, it's the other way around. and dubya has complete deniability because while jeb, dick, rummy, wolfoshitz, pearle and the other little rascals were setting the stage for his ascension, he (aka damian Laughing ) was out copping a good buzz before throwing the switch on 152 fully matured fetus' in an effort to demonstrate his compassion (gawd. time compression really is a marvelous effect...).

for the big brains in pnac, 9/11 must have been like christmas in july.

the good news is that it does seem to me that the people of good will in the gop (and i do believe that the majority of them are ) have begun to see the light and are in the process of setting adrift the pnac'ers and the social miscreants.

in which case, for them, the delay and frist fiascos are like boxing day in july...
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 01:03 am
McGentrix wrote:
It's very easy to overlook the opinions you agree with.


fox news and it's toadies prove that 7 days a week.

sorry mcg, but ya left the door wide open on that one... :wink:
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 01:06 am
Lash wrote:
Bias and brainwashing can be very stealthy.

That is much stronger than the obvious, forceful bludgeoning.


fox news and it's toadies prove that 7 days a weeks as well...
0 Replies
 
dora17
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 01:12 am
yeah, i kinda thought about that too, DTOM... Laughing
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 05:44 am
Lash wrote:
Bias and brainwashing can be very stealthy.

That is much stronger than the obvious, forceful bludgeoning.


Sheesh. Could we possibly find a more impeccable example of the 'fixed idea'. No amount of evidence or logic dispells one. In fact, all evidence against it is more properly seen as evidence in support of the fixed idea. You don't think Satan is behind that tree because, obviously, he's tricked you. The fact you do not see him constitutes convincing evidence he is there.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 06:01 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
blatham wrote:
Scary they are indeed. The folks there constitute a lovely picture of the ties between this administration and the arms and oil industries. Neoconservatism provides a facilitating philosophy for policies that:
- keep those in power in power
- further concentrate the power and wealth accrued
- a philosophical justification for deceit and war and the establishment or furtherance of a political system which neither they nor we could accurately describe as democratic.

ps...they are getting those chairs as a matter of design


yeah boy, you betcha.

i was struck by the first few words that koppel said when introducing his piece; "you can't really call it a conspiracy because it's happening in plain sight".

from the pain in the keester research i've done on this, the scenario i came up with is that bush isn't installing them, it's the other way around. and dubya has complete deniability because while jeb, dick, rummy, wolfoshitz, pearle and the other little rascals were setting the stage for his ascension, he (aka damian Laughing ) was out copping a good buzz before throwing the switch on 152 fully matured fetus' in an effort to demonstrate his compassion (gawd. time compression really is a marvelous effect...).

for the big brains in pnac, 9/11 must have been like christmas in july.

the good news is that it does seem to me that the people of good will in the gop (and i do believe that the majority of them are ) have begun to see the light and are in the process of setting adrift the pnac'ers and the social miscreants.

in which case, for them, the delay and frist fiascos are like boxing day in july...


This will be an interesting period for historians. Modern electronic media allows for the preservation of huge amounts of documentation. Even though web sites of government agencies and activist bodies are frequently scrubbed, various projects are underway to preserve data. Those of us who have put some time into studying this modern American right wing entity have a good notion of how often the principals have opened their yaps and let the truth of intentions and connections out into the light of day. In the day to day present, they can disguise the what and the who through yelling loudly and through misdirecting attention, but that stuff will fall away with analysis. Given, of course, that they don't succeed in maintaining and increasing their power and influence. If they do, and they might, then we can expect 'history' of the sort Orwell warned of...with Joe McCarthy and Ronald Reagan and dubya sitting up there in 'the stars and stripes pantheon of gods' beside Davy Crockett and Mammon.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 06:10 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
It's very easy to overlook the opinions you agree with.


fox news and it's toadies prove that 7 days a week.

sorry mcg, but ya left the door wide open on that one... :wink:


I left the door open on purpose. Of course it goes for both sides.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 06:24 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Lash wrote:
Bias and brainwashing can be very stealthy.

That is much stronger than the obvious, forceful bludgeoning.


fox news and it's toadies prove that 7 days a weeks as well...


I'm beginning to think you lefties watch far more Fox News than I ever have. Are y'all trying to get some pointers? Smile
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 07:29 am
Actually the phenomenon of Fox News is an excellent example to illustrate the problem some do have with diversity of thought and supports McG's comment:

Quote:
It's very easy to overlook the opinions you agree with.


How many on the left EVER have a problem with what theyhear on CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, PNR, or any of the alphabet cable channels? And why do they rant and rave about Fox News? Why? Because Fox has the audacity to present a different point of view that you are far less likely to hear from the other sources. One or two here would go so far as to flat out say that any of us who avail ourselves of any sources of information other than the alphabets or clearly leftwing sources are brainwashed, tunnel visioned, uneducated, along with several other uncomplimentary conditions.

I conclude that even though it does present both side of issues, those on the Left view Fox News as extreme and blatantly biased purely because it DOES present a point of view you do not hear on the alphabets. Fox dares to present a point of view the Left disagrees with. And the Left thinks the alphabets are fair and balanced and unbiased because they project a point of view that those on the Left most often agree with. Those on the Right can see the bias. Those on the Left do not.

It only makes sense that there are some colleges somewhere now that do a good job of teaching. My first university was one of those but it was a small, obscure, backwater institution little larger than a modern average city highschool. And yes we did get to know our professors personally and yes they were a mixed bag politically but there was a good mix and we did get a good rounded education. Maybe it is in this kind of environment that consevative professors are finding an unpoisonous environment.

The only schools that were included in the more modern polling data we've cited, however, are the large, prominent, well known schools. The disparity between conservative and liberal faculties is so wide that it is entirely possible that a student could go through four or more years of study and never encounter a conservative professor. If the student knew little or nothing to begin with, and the course and lecture material was not clothed in clearly identifiable political and/or sociological trappings, the student would not know how s/he was being indoctrinated with one point of view.
S/he would never have to think about it much and could just consider any conservative exposure on the 'outside' as uneducated twaddle.

This situation would be even more extreme if the student came out of a mostly left-leaning highschool and the university reinforced and affirmed partially developed opinions until the student was thoroughly brainwashed and incapable of seeing any other point of view as valid. The next thing you know s/he is posting on A2K and holding in contempt, ridiculing, and insulting any who dare to have a point of view other than the only one s/he can see as valid.

I would be as opposed to only the conservative point of view prevailing on mainstreamed college campuses as I am opposed to only the liberal point of view prevailing on college campuses. I would not encourage my kids to attend any school that was rigid in ideology or did not give them all points of view to consider or that would ostracize or coerce them to adopt only one sociopolitical point of view.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 07/26/2025 at 06:30:22