Diversity of Everything but Thought

There's no "conservative movement" more conservative or energetic than that of ... Islamicization.
Shrouded women, kept in their places... wild-eyed young men leaping to their deaths with a slogan on their lips.
Greedy old men clutching at the reins of power...
Gotta love those "conservative movements", eh, jw?

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ouch !

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Personally, I don't think conservatism = fundamentalism. The conservatism I espouse is in no way fuindamentalistic. It is the same conservatism that took us into outer space and ultimately to the moon, that keeps the space shuttle flying even now. The conservatism I admire cherishes family and assigns great value to each member of it, even the unborn. This conservatism requires choices to be reasonable and requires equal opportunity to compete, not equality of outcome. It rewards industriousness, honesty, and excellence and requires responsibility to be taken for choices made. This conservatism draws no assumptions about a person's ethnicity or background or race but judges people on their integrity, their ability, their industry, and their values.

Magus seems to assign conservatism to the likes of Islamic fundamentalists who demean their women and destroy their enemies in a particular horrible and unconscionable manner. Fundamentalism can be one form of conservatism I suppose, but it bears no respemblance to the conservatism of millions of Americans. And Islamic terrorists are no more conservative than were the Marxists or Nazis or Facists who tore their societies away from their conservative roots at gunpoint.

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It DOES bear resemblance to American conservatism, Fox, in that they seek to limit what people can or cannot do in society according to their own beliefs about morality, without taking into account the fact that they may be (and probably are) wrong to do so. It's merely a question of degree, is all.

Cycloptichorn

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Fox opines that the 60's and 70's space exploration was a "conservative" exercise.
I disagree.
I'd term it "Progressive".
Because "Conservatives" seek to maintain the Status quo, i.e., resist change.
I venture that landing on the moon was a BIG change, a PROGRESSIVE "leap for mankind".
Observing the "conservatives" deigning to claim THAT accomplishment as their very own... well AFTER the fact...
LUDICROUS.

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Magus, that's just not playing fair, The Ruskies started the space program and, at the time, were probably the most conservative government of all the bigggies.

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Magus wrote:

There's no "conservative movement" more conservative or energetic than that of ... Islamicization.

So the only normal movement is that of the bowels of liberalism?

Quote:

Shrouded women, kept in their places... wild-eyed young men leaping to their deaths with a slogan on their lips.

I don't know about you but I haven't seen any Christians killing themselves in the name of "God" have you? Have Christians gone around the modern world killing people and committing acts of terror in the name of religion? I don't think so.

Quote:

Greedy old men clutching at the reins of power...
Gotta love those "conservative movements", eh, jw?

There is a conservative movement going on at the higher schools of higher learning and it is by young people, not old men looking for power. To deny there is a conservative movement is disregarding the last election. Do you really think there were that many "anybody but Kerry" people out there?

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And since when is conservatism not progressive? JFK was certainly no wild-eyed liberal. And Cyclop cannot possibly think that conservatives are somehow more judgmental or oppressive than are liberals these days. It is now GWB who is pushing to expand space exploration again, not the wild-eyed liberals in Washington. Does anybody really think the Ted Kennedy's and Robert Byrd's and other 'greedy old men clutching at the reins of power' are conservative?

I think we need a bit of diversity in how we view diversity here.

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So now you're claiming JFK too? Most people are not wile-eyed liberals. That doesn't make them conservative in the contemporary sense.

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Baldimo wrote:

Have Christians gone around the modern world killing people and committing acts of terror in the name of religion? I don't think so.

well, there was that period where all of those abortion clinics were getting bombed and doctors got shot.

but i'll be the first to say that i do not personally know any christians that supported that stuff.

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Freeduck writes:

Quote:

So now you're claiming JFK too? Most people are not wile-eyed liberals. That doesn't make them conservative in the contemporary sense.

JFK was far more conservative in outlook, philosophy, and practice than are many Republicans these days. So was LBJ for that matter even as he expanded the "Great Society", including civil rights reforms, with the help of many Republicans on capital hill. It was mostly the Democrats in those days who were the true conservatives determined to maintain the status quo and who resisted the radical changes of the mid to late 50's and 60's. Some of the changes were great, some not so great. But assigning 'liberal' and 'conservative' to political parties is in no way an exact science if you use classical definitions.

These days "liberal" mostly means rejection of traditional values; "conservative" mostly means preservation of traditional values. Both sides can be equally intolerant of the views of the other, which again ties in with the thesis of this thread.

I do believe that a large majority of Americans are far more conservative than liberal, whether they define themselves that way or not. And, as the GOP tends to be more hospitable to those of conservative bent, I believe that is why the GOP did so well in the national, state, and local elections last month.

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I guess the reason that kennedy was shot by conservatives was because he was so conservative.

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Okay I'll bite. What makes you think the people/person/organization or whatever who shot Kennedy were conservatives? I find that a fascinating take on history.

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um lets see, Kennedy conservative or Nixon conservative. Nah, I have to go with Kennedy liberal, Nixon conservative. On the other hand I would go along with Eisenhower kinda liberal vs Nixon, way paranoid conservative. It's really kinda weird you know, like the way Goldwater paved the way for Reagan (made Reagan seem like a good alternative). May work out the same sorta way with Dean making some liberal look good next time around.

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just so we all understand how people mean things here, i have a quick question...

how are you guys using the labels; liberal, radical left wing liberal and a plain leftist radical??

same goes for the conservative, hard right conservative and neo-conservative...

i know how i think about these definitions, but i'm curious to see if we're all on the same page.

i don't have a "gotcha" ambush planned, btw... Idea

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I find the labels liberal and conservative to be too confining.

I see the political spectrum actually broken into four quadrants based on ones position on social issues and fiscal issues.

I tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Okay I'll bite. What makes you think the people/person/organization or whatever who shot Kennedy were conservatives? I find that a fascinating take on history.

I spoke too hastily and now i have to admit that i really didn't know what i was talking about. I never really followed the story since it was a little before my time and just always assumed that he was killed by a conservative since he was a democrat.

After doing a quick search, I saw how ignorantly I spoke.

In any event, kennedy was not a conservative in the way of George Bush. I noticed that in my quick search.

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revel wrote:

In any event, kennedy was not a conservative in the way of George Bush. I noticed that in my quick search.

no, revel, he most certainly wasn't. apparently the only thing conservative about dubya is the exercise of restraint. people talk about tax and spend liberals... jeeeez... dubya's a don't tax and spend more than ya got kinda guy. that's okay as long as your willing to sell the country to the communist chinese, the japanese and others, a loan at a time.

nothing conservative about that. nope, nothin' at all.

by the way, i just remembered that you were wondering about museums. if ya can make it up to louisville, the speed museum has some nice pieces. and the joffrey ballet too.

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Foxfyre wrote:

These days "liberal" mostly means rejection of traditional values; "conservative" mostly means preservation of traditional values.

almost correct fox. the definitions of liberal that i've read says " progressive", not "rejects". it's a fine line, but one worth noting.

Foxfyre wrote:

Both sides can be equally intolerant of the views of the other, which again ties in with the thesis of this thread.

sad, but true.

Foxfyre wrote:

I do believe that a large majority of Americans are far more conservative than liberal, whether they define themselves that way or not. And, as the GOP tends to be more hospitable to those of conservative bent, I believe that is why the GOP did so well in the national, state, and local elections last month.

possibly. but following the election of the "conservative" nominee, it seems like the infighting has already been upped in the republican party. who's conservative? who's not? who's not conservative enough?

frankly, it makes my brain hurt. and it's really quite ridiculous considering we have a bunch of murdering screw heads trying to kill us.

the bin ladens of the world don't see liberals or conservatives in the gunsight. they see americans.

there's probably something important to be had in that statement...

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Quote:

the bin ladens of the world don't see liberals or conservatives in the gunsight. they see americans.

That's true. I can imagine the comeback though. That's the thing about message boards, ain't it?

I got an anniverssary coming up and we usually go somewhere, I might suggest Louisville and try to bargain my into seeing the musuems. (not my husband's sort of thing)

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