ican711nm wrote:In the formal logic sense of the terms conservative and progressive, my set of political views do not conform to either definition. Taken separately, like you suggested, some of my political views are logically conservative and some are logically progressive.
Yup. Same here. Which is possibly why I wrote, in the very text you actually quoted:
Of course, a person can well combine conservative and progressive sentiments or points of view. In a literal sense, for example, I am quite conservative: I don't like things changing much. Yet my ideology is firmly rooted in the concept of the possibility and desirability of our society progressing to ever better forms. A party, too - again in re: to ican's reference as well, can also choose to combine any hotchpotch of positions in its programme. But to wonder in surprise about the assertion that conservatism - the concept - is by definition not progressive doesn't evidence much logic.
ican711nm wrote:In general useage, I think the terms right, conservative, progressive, liberal, and left are only useful and reasonably accurate when describing a position on a particular political issue.
Yup, and as your Constitution example shows, the conservative position would be the position advocating a respect for time-honoured tradition and the progressive position one that pleads for change as an expression of social progress.
(Not sure about your taxation example. "Progressive taxation" is not called "progressive" in reference to the ideology, but simply to the numerical aspect of it: the tax
rates are progressive, in that they increase step by step according to the place on the scale.
A flat tax I guess
could be defended as a conservative position by referring back to the old (pre-New Deal?) times when progressive taxation was still considered a dangerously new-fangled thing, arguing that we should go back to the "original" tradition; but it would depend on that being the argument. I would think of flat tax more as a libertarian than a conservative position, myself.)
Aside from that there's the
concept of conservat
ism (though not, apparently, strangely enough, of "progressivism"?), wich defines the solidification of a system of conservative positions. The fact that most any individual will only subscribe to conservatism (or libertarianism, liberalism, etc) in part, as people usually believe in some mix of positions, doesn't change the meaning of the concept.
Fox, in a way I think you're right, at least where your last paragraph is concerned ... it is the left which is growing increasingly conservative, in how they have been left to putting their heels in the sand and trying to defend existing accomplishment (here, at least, where issues like gay marriage are pretty much non-existent and the debate, immigration/integration aside, centers almost entirely on economic issues). Whereas its parts of the right that are trying to blaze ever new, at times quite revolutionary change.
"Conservatism" however is not the ownership of the Republican or any particular party. Back when the Republican party was the one pleading for the emancipation of slaves, it was progressive in that respect, and the Southern Democrats who opposed it were conservative. In short, if (parts of) the Republican Party turn into vigorous proponents of drastic social change, it is not that the definition of "conservatism" then will have to change - it is merely that those Republicans will have become less "conservative".
However, I do think we need to make a distinction between advocating drastic change per se (on to a wholly new era) and doing so on the basis of the argument that we need to get rid of the "artificial" modern additions to the system (you know, the ones put in place by Roosevelt's New Deal, LBJ's Great Society, etc.) and return to the original good. Compare also the Constitutionalist position. Because in that case the change one is advocating is one on the argument of restoring tradition, which then is indeed still a conservative position, of course.
(Edited to add bold font, remove a plural, stuff like that)
