Blacks and women celebrate Condi Rice.

I can imagine someone drawing Obama's lips as big as they did Condi's. Somehow, I don'tthink it would be quite as acceptable in these environs.

And, I always gave Clinton his due as a Rhodes scholar, and someone who invented himself from humble beginnings.

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Quote:

References to Condi as Aunt Jemima are all over the web.

The radio as well. I was thinking a few days ago how sad her parents aren't alive to see her accomplishments...they'd have been so proud of her.

Now I'm thinking it's probably a good thing they're not here to see all this. How sad it is.

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dlowan wrote:

On this very threasd I have commented on her abilities - and elsewhere on Powells.

I am not sure if you are addressing the media, Ninh - or individual progressives?

If you are speaking of individuals, I deny your accusation on a personal level.

My accusation that "most liberals in the US would probably rather bite their tongue off than say something nice about any prominent Bush Cabinet member, on whatever count", dlowan?

I wasnt aware you were a liberal in the US ...

(That Sozobe isnt covered by any observation of "most liberals in the US" is a given, to me ;-))

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nimh wrote:

Isn't that the two planes of merit that both Lash and the people she's criticizing seem to be unable to separate properly?

No. I am miffed because they won't separate them. They are separate to me.

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I like her. Shes very smart , and like Nimh said her bio shows extensive education. As an Adviser she showed decorum and didnt allow her feathers to ruffle. And until she makes a major (not minor) mistake I will never say she isnt qualified. Have you ever started a job only to have 1/2 the company telling you to your face on the first day that you suck at it? The entire argument for/against will actually be a valid one 1 year from now. Until then she gets my vote of confidence.

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Larry434 wrote:

(Rice) hasn't shown much particular involvement with achieving things for other blacks, the Afro-American community.

Why does anyone think it is incumbent on blacks who pull themselves up by their bootstraps and achieve great things to have an "involvement with achieving things for other blacks, the Afro-American community".?

It isn't, at all, you're right. Unless you do indeed want to be receiving "accolades from blacks", be "ballyhood", have it be "mardi gras 24/7" on the account of your professional success, when you make it up there ...

I mean basically, you cant have your cake and eat it too. Either you choose the road of representing purely yourself, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and making it out there as, empathically, "just another professional", not any kind of representative or fighter for the wider black community - and thats fine, and if you make it, more power to ya - but then there's no reason to expect that wider black community to be celebrating your accomplishment when you do make it, either. Whereas if you make it big while having testified an acknowledgement of / a commitment to some kind of larger Afro-American community throughout (like Jesse Jackson had, whether you agreed with him or not), then obviously you are more likely to be celebrated as an Afro-American too.

If you insist on other people practicing colourblindness all your way to the top, they're not suddenly gonna celebrate you for your colour when you do make it there, thats all.

(I'm soo behind on the discussion ... I keep lagging a bunch of posts.)

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You're lost in the maze Smile

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Lash wrote:

nimh wrote:
Isn't that the two planes of merit that both Lash and the people she's criticizing seem to be unable to separate properly?

No. I am miffed because they won't separate them. They are separate to me.

Yes, you point out how they fail to separate the two and they point out how you fail to separate the two.

Well, as long as everyone agrees that its a bad thing not to do so, I guess thats ... a good thing ;-).

Carbuncle, she may be new to the State Dept, but she's not new to the Cabinet ... its not like we've got nothing to go on here when we're saying we dont think she'll be much good.

It sucks being told on your first day at work that you suck at it - but if the people who are telling you are people who saw you make some big mistakes in your previous job that was very closely related to the one you're going to do now, it's not entirely illogical ...

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LOL, JW - yeah I am! Razz

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Larry434 wrote:

But it is interesting that 3 of the most criticized people for being lackeys serving in our current government are all black....Rice, Powell, and Thomas.

What do you make of that?

Um, I think you're forgetting the #1 lackey for the neocon machine: George W. Bush, hisself. Laughing

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dlowan wrote:

Lackey here doesn't have racist undertones. I take it it does in the US?

No, it doesn't. It means you serve without questioning the intentions of the one you serve.

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Lash wrote:

Racism and sexism are approved if the victims are conservatives.

References to Condi as Aunt Jemima are all over the web.

But are the sources blogs with authors who are equivalent to Rush Limbaugh, or are they reputable news agencies such as NY Times, Washington Post, Chicago Sun Times? There are bigots on both sides, I'm not arguing that point. I will argue, however that mainstream liberals are calling Colin Powell "Uncle Tom," or Condoleezza Rice "Aunt Jemima." I don't think there are too many cries of either from the black community, with the exception of Harry Belafonte's now famous description of one of those using a derogatory term, but he was doing so to make a point, kind of like if any white person called someone a "n----," it would certainly be racist, but if a black person does that, it could be affectionate or it could be cautionary, or descriptive- but not exactly racist, kwim? Their intention in the expletive is different, probably not positive, but not absolutely irrequivacably not.

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He added that he has a long history of commitment to civil rights and has supported Madison's black community.

Yes...dontcha love him trotting that out. The old, "well, some of my best friends..."

Rolling Eyes

PS I caught him on a newscast "defending" his remark. Just think Michael Moore's twin LOL.

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LOL, JW!!

This is succintly what I have been trying to say:
(From OpinionJournal)

We got an insight into contemporary liberal attitudes toward race on a taxi ride not long ago. We were en route to Shea Stadium along with fellow conservative commentator Joel Mowbray, and our driver was a youngish Haitian woman who had her radio tuned to Air America. Mowbray started a political discussion with her, and she told him that she doesn't like Republicans because "they hate black people."

"Does President Bush hate Condi Rice and Colin Powell?" Mowbray asked, to which she replied that Rice and Powell aren't "really black" because they "don't think like black people."

The idea that black people are supposed to think in a certain way is, of course, a racist assumption in itself. But what's most interesting about this exchange is that our driver had in effect redefined race so that it has nothing to do with race. When she said, "They hate black people," she meant merely, "They disagree with liberal ideology."

The charge of racism carries a certain sting because America has a long history of real racism. But the progress the country has made on race, especially over the past 40 years, has been nothing short of stunning. Here we have a president whose detractors describe him as a "radical conservative" appointing a black woman to replace a black man as the most senior member of his cabinet.

Even the liberals who attack Rice on racial grounds don't have anything against black people in positions of power per se. They're just desperately upset because those on their side of the political fence no longer have a monopoly on the belief in racial equality. They're lashing out in an ugly way because they've lost the moral high ground.

It's good for the country that no one occupies that high ground anymore--or, more precisely, that virtually everyone does. Secretary of State Rice will stand as an example of the greatness of America, a country where, after much struggle, people are judged not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character. We're confident that one day even liberals will appreciate this.

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nimh wrote:

dlowan wrote:
On this very threasd I have commented on her abilities - and elsewhere on Powells.

I am not sure if you are addressing the media, Ninh - or individual progressives?

If you are speaking of individuals, I deny your accusation on a personal level.

My accusation that "most liberals in the US would probably rather bite their tongue off than say something nice about any prominent Bush Cabinet member, on whatever count", dlowan?

I wasnt aware you were a liberal in the US ...

(That Sozobe isnt covered by any observation of "most liberals in the US" is a given, to me ;-))

Lol!!! Sorry - gettin' sensitive! But - I do think you are exaggerating, nonetheless. I mean, as you know I get damn confused about just what liberal is sposed to mean - but the broad left in the US I am sure would applaud, as I do, the fact that such appointments are possible, while decrying the incumbent's politics? And - I am sure that many can appreciate Rice and Powell's brilliance and achievements, even while criticising their ideologies and actions? And I am sure that many appreciated many aspects of Powell, in particular? I do not think America's progressive community is represented by the most beset by good/evil folk herex - any more than the sensible right is?

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I actually agree Dlowan. I thought Madeline Albright an abyssmal Secretary of State, for instance, but I criticized her performance, not her loyalty to the president or her personally. And I didn't criticize her at all until she really screwed up some things.

The criticisms of Condoleeza Rice have been demeaning, insulting, and, as we have observed, have been laced with overtones of sexism and/or racism. If there is room to criticize her performance in National Security, her critics don't seem to know what she should have done differently but they rather accuse her of malfeasance.

This to me is the Left's propensity (by some) for hatefulness coming out and unwillingness to give anybody a chance that doesn't share their own ideology and political party. I just can't see that as constructive.

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Indeed, Fox - thing is, from here, I see both sides being thus in equal measure! Well, the extremes of both sides.

'Tis sad.

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dare2think wrote:

What are you talking about, Rice is just another bush lackey, yes-woman for bush, his bobble-head, why are you expecting women or blacks to support her? What does women or black have to do with it.
Clinton had a women secretary of state, and Rice does not represent blacks, so what is your beef?

forgive me but dose anyone remember Waco , Janet reno was a shame to women and americans everywhere.
i love connie rice and would ask her to run for the white house if i got the chance

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princesspupule wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Lackey here doesn't have racist undertones. I take it it does in the US?

No, it doesn't. It means you serve without questioning the intentions of the one you serve.

Interesting - I got the idea that "lackey" was being said to imply something racist when used as a criticism.

I see it as a pretty one-size-fits-all insult!

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Blacks and women celebrate Condi Rice.

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