0
   

Liberal Cartoonists, Liberal Racism

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 08:22 am
Two intereswting articles on the subject:

The Faith Based Leadership Council's position:

http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200411/CUL20041119b.html

and an article from Mens News Daily:

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/yz/z-misc/zieve/2004/zieve111904.htm
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 09:10 am
Lash wrote:
revel wrote:
A number of us has admitted that some of the cartoons of condi rice has been racial. What do you all want us to, slit our wrist in shame?
No, but I wouldlike the ones who said it wasn'tracist or made lame excuses for it to punch themselves hard in the face.
Having said, being against condi rice does not make a person racist.
No, really?
I am against her because she has lied or couched her words or changed the subject or reworded her questions to suit her answers, take your pick, and not because she is a woman or that she is black. If we did like her just for those reasons then that would be just as racist as not liking her for those reasons.
Liking her and acknowledging her acheivements aren't the same thing.

We have already went into the condi rice debate and I don't feel like doing it again as it is not important to the subject at hand.

[
Quote:
color=red]Someone, please open the door for Revel.[/color]


The thread is about the racist cartoons of condi rice, not rice herself. Besides I can open my own doors, thanks.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 09:14 am
From the article Gunga posted:

Quote:
"Dr. Rice has been singled out for persecution by a handful of bigoted liberals who have characterized her as a steppin and fetchin sambo," said Kellman, adding that he believes "they feel threatened and disturbed by the fact that Dr. Rice will soon be the most powerful Black woman in the United States as Secretary of State."


That pretty well sums it up don't you think?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 09:20 am
Revel--
Not trying to continue a bad vibe. I just always wonder why people post on a subject, and then say they don't like the subject... I don't think discussion of Condi is off-topic in a thread about Condi...
********

Fox--

That's it exactly. If she were a Democrat--and actually been promoted to such an incredibly important position with THEM, her face would be on every magazine in publication--she'd be feted and celebrated from all corners.

In effect, the Bush administration has taken the mantle of womens' rights and ethnic equality away from the Democrats--leaving them with....nothing, really.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:03 am
Lash wrote:
Revel--
Not trying to continue a bad vibe. I just always wonder why people post on a subject, and then say they don't like the subject... I don't think discussion of Condi is off-topic in a thread about Condi...

It is when the discussion is about the racial aspect of cartoons of condi rather than her actions and statements as National security advisor to bush. ********

Fox--

That's it exactly. If she were a Democrat--and actually been promoted to such an incredibly important position with THEM, her face would be on every magazine in publication--she'd be feted and celebrated from all corners.

That is probably true. I think that wouldn't be a bad thing as we should celabrate the strides that Blacks have made in high positions in Washington when not so long ago they couldn't even drink out of the same fountain.

In effect, the Bush administration has taken the mantle of womens' rights and ethnic equality away from the Democrats--leaving them with....nothing, really.


This is silly. If Rice had not been such a "yes sir; anything you say sir" kind of national security advisor we would have admired her more.

It seems to me that you guys are taking a few liberal racist cartoons and turing it into a big issue for political purposes and that is why I don't want to get side tracked into talking about her career as National security advisor but stick to the particular charge that you guys are trying to make because our objections have nothing to do with racial prejudices and that is the main issue.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:11 am
Why don't you start your own thread and run it the way you want it to go, Revel?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:12 am
right; i thought they said you were nice?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:29 am
By and large liberals have been at the forefront of civil rights/equality movements, while conservative/far right have been the opposite. The relatively minor instances of racism associated with some persons being called liberal on here pales compared with the overall picture. The right wing will stop at nothing to disparage every aspect of liberalism. I don't even read most of the posts on threads like this because disparagement of everything liberal is the game plan and I don't intend to get sucked into the notion it is particularly legitemate.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:36 am
revel writes
Quote:
right; i thought they said you were nice?


No, not nice. "Nice" has negative connotations to me so I avoid referring to myself or others that I like as 'nice'.

Pleasant, courteous, opinionated, civil, lovable, cuddlesome, okay.

In fairness to Revel, I will ask Gunga to comment on whether discussing Condi Rice's qualifications constitutes highjacking of his thread. In my view, calling her unqualified, not to mention 'not up to the job' can very well have sexist if not racist overtones. But I think going back through all the comments made about Bush appointments, you'll find that white nominees are called unqualified by the loyal opposition. Almost all the minorities have been characterized as 'not up to the job' and/or they are the equivalent of Bush bootlickers. Now you tell me that isn't racist.

I only suggested that Revel start her own thread because she is so disatisfied with the way this one is going.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 10:47 am
edgarblythe wrote:
By and large liberals have been at the forefront of civil rights/equality movements, while conservative/far right have been the opposite. The relatively minor instances of racism associated with some persons being called liberal on here pales compared with the overall picture. The right wing will stop at nothing to disparage every aspect of liberalism. I don't even read most of the posts on threads like this because disparagement of everything liberal is the game plan and I don't intend to get sucked into the notion it is particularly legitemate.


Except that the particular racist bile shown here serves to remind us that the Democratic Party arose in the Old South.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 11:07 am
Lash wrote:


In effect, the Bush administration has taken the mantle of womens' rights and ethnic equality away from the Democrats--leaving them with....nothing, really.


They can console themselves with the fact that they'd have had about 30% of the vote on a level playing field, i.e. without the 15% gift from the mass media's year and a half long hate, fear, and lies campaign. When you think about it, that (30%) is about the same as Hitler used to get in elections.
0 Replies
 
dare2think
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 11:47 am
Rice made a speech at a media event in Texas, and she said "the Civil Rights movement was unnecessary" now, is it any wonder why the black community does not claim ass.
Now for all of you who want to see it for yourselves go to your search engines and find it.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 12:17 pm
dare2think wrote:
Rice made a speech at a media event in Texas, and she said "the Civil Rights movement was unnecessary" now, is it any wonder why the black community does not claim ass.
Now for all of you who want to see it for yourselves go to your search engines and find it.


Actually, she logically merely speculated that segregation would have been abolished as a matter of law in time, without the accelerating effect of the CR movement.


Blacks disdain her for confronting racism and taking advantage of the opportunities available to her to achieve her commendable successes as a scholar, teacher, and government servant.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 12:43 pm
dare2think wrote:
Rice made a speech at a media event in Texas, and she said "the Civil Rights movement was unnecessary" now, is it any wonder why the black community does not claim ass.
Now for all of you who want to see it for yourselves go to your search engines and find it.


Apparently Jesse Helms once made precisely such a statement. Nonetheless, Google searches for Rice saying anything like that turn up empty.

Searching on "civil rights movement was unnecessary" and 'rice' turns up zip,
as do searches on the terms: condoleezza rice "civil rights" unnecessary".

I'm pretty good at doing Google searches. When something doesn't turn up, it's invariably because it isn't there.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 12:54 pm
Yeah. And the one who claims has the onus of proving it. Anyhoo, that's been the rules when I've been in the sandbox.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 01:24 pm
Paraphrasing is one thing, but dare2think here used quotes, i.e. made a specific claim that Rice had made a specific statement and if Dr. Rice had ever made a statement like that, it would be very easy to find on the net.

Basic rule, don't use quotes unless you're certain of the exact words involved. Nonetheless, I don't think Rice would have ever made a statement like that. Much more likely "dare2think" here is confusing Helms and Rice.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 01:25 pm
gungasnake wrote:
Paraphrasing is one thing, but dare2think here used quotes, i.e. made a specific claim that Rice had made a specific statement and if Dr. Rice had ever made a statement like that, it would be very easy to find on the net.

Basic rule, don't use quotes unless you're certain of the exact words involved. Nonetheless, I don't think Rice would have ever made a statement like that. Much more likely "dare2think" here is confusing Helms and Rice.


d2k is usually confused.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 02:31 pm
Having heard Condi speak on several occasions, I think it is safe to say that she believes that the battles for racial equality and opportunity have largely been won and that it is now up to the person to take advantage of it. Of course that is the position of all black conservatives as well as the position of most conservatives of all stripes.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 02:33 pm
Lash wrote:
revel wrote:
A number of us has admitted that some of the cartoons of condi rice has been racial. What do you all want us to, slit our wrist in shame?
No, but I wouldlike the ones who said it wasn'tracist or made lame excuses for it to punch themselves hard in the face.
Having said, being against condi rice does not make a person racist.
No, really?
I am against her because she has lied or couched her words or changed the subject or reworded her questions to suit her answers, take your pick, and not because she is a woman or that she is black. If we did like her just for those reasons then that would be just as racist as not liking her for those reasons.
Liking her and acknowledging her acheivements aren't the same thing.We have already went into the condi rice debate and I don't feel like doing it again as it is not important to the subject at hand.

Someone, please open the door for Revel.


Do you understand the different definitions for the terms, "Racism," "racial," racial "slur," and racist?

Racism and racist, http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racist
Quote:

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racist adj. & n.

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


racist

adj 1: based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion [syn: antiblack, anti-Semitic, anti-Semite(a)] n : a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others [syn: racialist]

Racial http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racial
Quote:

ra·cial ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rshl)
adj.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of race or races.
Arising from or based on differences among human racial groups: racial conflict; racial discrimination.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racial·ly adv.

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


ra·cial (rshl)
adj.

Of, relating to, or characteristic of race or races.
Arising from or based on differences among human racial groups.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racial·ly adv.


Source: The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.


Main Entry: ra·cial
Pronunciation: 'rA-sh&l
Function: adjective
: of, relating to, or based on a race


Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.


racial

\Ra"cial\, a. Of or pertaining to a race or family of men; as, the racial complexion.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


racial

adj 1: of or related to genetically distinguished groups of people; "racial groups" 2: of or characteristic of race or races or arising from differences among groups; "racial differences"; "racial discrimination" [ant: nonracial]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Racial slur http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racial%20slur
Quote:

1 entry found for racial slur.
Main Entry: racial slur
Function: noun
Definition: a derogatory or disrespectful nickname for a racial group, used without restraint



Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.5)
Copyright © 2003, 2004 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC



The people who need to punch themselves hard in the face are the people who don't know what the difference is between these terms. Mad
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2004 02:42 pm
So would calling Condi "Aunt Jemima" qualify as a 'slur' do you think Princess? And how about those who refer to minority nominations, including Condoleeza Rice, as "not up to the job" and "bootlickers" when they don't apply those same negative comments to the white nominees? Would that qualify as racism in your eyes?
0 Replies
 
 

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