David Horowitz: Democrats are the party of hate

@maxdancona,

Well fine. By your definition I don't think White Nationalism is all that horrible as long as the white's who abide by it don't attempt to take anything from non-whites.

Every group in this nation exaggerates their grievances.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Liberal professors outnumber conservatives nearly 12 to 1, study finds

Couldn't that be because conservatives are dumber, and just plain can't get jobs as college professors? Just saying (my own anecdotal experience bears this out).

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Well fine. By your definition I don't think White Nationalism is all that horrible as long as the white's who abide by it don't attempt to take anything from non-whites.

Every group in this nation exaggerates their grievances.

I value multiculturalism, there is a natural tension between White Nationalism and multiculturalism. "Horrible" is a subjective term. I am certainly work very hard to support multiculturalism; immigration, LGBT rights and acceptance of Islam are important issues.

I am happy to state my opinions, and back them with facts when I can. At the bottom of these big issue there are always value judgments and values aren't facts.

This is a mud-slinging thread.... it was clearly designed as such from the OP. I suppose that seeking a rational discussion in a mud-slinging thread is unreasonable.

That being said, there are areas where liberals and conservatives can agree. I think it is important to be able to find areas where I agree with conservatives. There are clear areas where I see the facts agree with Conservatives... I am proud of this. I have stood up to Edgar, and EhBeth and Setanta, and Izzy when I saw that they were being excessive and ridiculous.

It is very easy for conservatives to stand up to liberals, or for liberal to stand up to conservatives. This is the nature of things... it isn't surprising or honorable.

I would like to see a conservative here who is willing stand up to another conservative when they are being excessive, or ridiculous. I haven't seen any conservative here who is willing to cross this line.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

This is a mud-slinging thread.... it was clearly designed as such from the OP. I suppose that seeking a rational discussion in a mud-slinging thread is unreasonable.

"Mudslinging?" Why in the world would you say that? The post merely made a reference to an article where a conservative (Horrowitz) made some calm, rational arguments in support of his conclusion that there is a great deal of hatred and attempts to suppress liberty and free speech coming from the left.

Anyone is free to disagree, but that doesn't make any and all criticism of the left "mudslinging." But, again, you are helping to prove his point. Anything he says MUST be dismissed as contentless"mudslinging." IF it doesn't favor the left. That is the whole M.O. of the left, with it's PC crap and it's "virtue signalling." It all stems from the Marcusian idea that the right must be censored, and not allowed to express it's viewpoint. Tolerance, he says, is a BAD thing. Ideas from the right should NOT be tolerated, and should be censored and suppressed.

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@maxdancona,

Neither of the terms "white nationalism," or "white supremacy," are accurately descriptive in any way.

The populist movement (if you want to call it that) has absolutely nothing to do with skin color (for most adherents, anyway). "Nationalism," or even "cultural nationalism," are what's at issue, not race or skin color.

Cultural nationalists oppose, among other things, the mass importation of immigrants whose values are fundamentally opposed to those of the west, and it's long-standing "culture."

They also oppose the "globalist" perspective and want to focus on domestic issues and domestic well-being, rather than try to change, save, and/or accomodate "the world."

For them questions like "what is best for Africa (or China, or the middle east, or Mexico, or El Salvador, or whatever)," while not insignificant, are secondary in priority to the question of "what is best for America?"

1 Reply

@layman,

Quote:

Cultural nationalists oppose, among other things, the mass importation of immigrants whose values are fundamentally opposed to those of the west, and it's long-standing "culture."

I will accept the term "cultural nationalism", except the culture we are talking about is Northern European. Of course our culture has always been obsessed with race... this is nothing new.

Just 50 years ago interracial marriages were illegal in the United States (Loving v Virginia was decided June of 1967). Swimming pools and schools were segregated
I don't know how much you know about our culture. Just 100 years ago, Black men were lynched for whistling at White women. We had an "Asian Exclusion Act" that was billed by its supporters as the "Asian Exclusion Act". We had people running around in White hoods in support of their "Culture".

Now all of a sudden support for "Stop and Frisk" and border walls and vigilante killings have nothing to do with race.

If you want to call it "Cultural Nationalism" fine. But the culture you are nationalizing has a hell of a history with racial oppression.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

If you want to call it "Cultural Nationalism" fine. But the culture you are nationalizing has a hell of a history with racial oppression.

Welcome to the world. Name one culture what you can't say the same thing about (as regards minorities in that culture).

Trying to point out some of the unsavory aspects of a given country's history does not tell the full story, nor does it in any way invalidate the positive things.

1 Reply

@layman,

Quote:

Welcome to the world. Name one culture what you can't say the same thing about (as regards minorities in that culture).

That's the whole point. That is why I believe in multiculturalism.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Welcome to the world. Name one culture what you can't say the same thing about (as regards minorities in that culture).

That's the whole point. That is why I believe in multiculturalism.

I don't follow your "reasoning" at all, Max. First you try to give the impression that western culture is inferior because it has some faults. On it's face, the suggestion is that other cultures are "superior" and should replace ours.

But then you admit that imperfections are NOT exclusive to the west, and that's why you want more imperfect cultural influences here. I may have problems in my own family, let's say. That's no reason for me to want to also want the problems of other families piled on me.

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@layman,

Quote:

First you try to give the impression that western culture is inferior because it has some faults.

I never tried to give that impression at all. You are making that up, not me.

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@maxdancona,

Let me make this clear. I don't believe in Cultural Superiority. I don't believe in cultural inferiority. I believe in multiculturalism.

I want to live in a society where descendants of White Protestants, and descendants of Africans, and Asians, and Italians, and Irish People, and Jews and Muslims and Mexicans and who ever else has come to be a part of the American republic are all accepted as equally American.

That is why I object to what you are calling Cultural Nationalism. The trend to label anything but a narrow experience directly descending from Northern Europe as un-American is troubling to me.

When people see an understandable reaction to Black kids being shot by police as a threat to Americans (as if the Black kids and their families aren't American), we have a problem with cultural nationalism.

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@maxdancona,

You can be a cultural relativist all you want, and insist that nothing is inherently wrong or less valuable than anything else--it just depends on what is accepted and valued by the culture in question, that's all.

Africa, for example, has a long, ongoing history of tribal conflict, highlighted by extreme brutality and savagery toward the "other" tribe. That's just part of their "culture." Muslim countries accept and generally approve of killing homosexuals and mutilating women---that's just part of the "culture," and is hence immune from criticism. It's what they believe in, so it can't be "wrong."

I don't buy that line, but even if I did, the fact would remain that cultures are DIFFERENT. They are not "the same," even if you want to say that every one of them is "right."

America has a long-standing history of freedom, independence, democracy, etc. It rejected the culturally approved of monarchy of the Europeans. But these values are not shared by all cultures, and are, in fact, openly denounced and opposed by some.

We don't need them here, even if they are 100% "right" is their cultural habits, from their perspective. They will not fit. There's no reason to try to pound a square peg into a round hole. It aint gunna work.

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@layman,

Quote:

America has a long-standing history of freedom, independence, democracy, etc.

Have you heard about our history with Slavery, or the trail of tears, or lynching? We have been on a journey to freedom and democracy. It is hard to suggest that White Culture hasn't be highlighted by "extreme brutality and savagery". Our country is best because we are moving toward being a freer, more just society. And we have made great strides in this direction.

We have ended slavery, won civil rights, ended racial quotas and stopped putting homosexuals in jail. These were all hard won struggles requiring marches, and defiance and even a Civil War. But we continued to extend more rights to more people in spite of their color, or ethnic background.

The more that we have become a more tolerant, accepting society, the more we have moved away from some pretty brutal sins of the past.

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@maxdancona,

They are bona fide "dissidents" in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, Cuba, etc, who truly reject the national/cultural values that prevail there.

Such people might be good candidates for immigration to the USA. But that does not mean that we should welcome EVERY Iranian, most of whom harbor extreme HATRED toward the USA.

Cheese-eaters will tell you is "wrong" to even consider such differences.

1 Reply

@layman,

Part of my family is Jewish. My great grandfather fled from Europe before the first world war. We faced discrimination in US.

Pretty much everything that you now say about Muslims was said about Jews. They were considered dangerous, and treacherous, and un-American. They were said to keep to themselves and that they didn't assimilate. And they were said to be plotting the overthrow of the American system of Government to overthrow Christianity.

So, yes. Jews now are considered Americans. There is a some Anti-Semitism, but Jews hold prominent positions and most Americans don't care at all.

When I hear what is now being said about Muslims (and Africans and Mexicans) I understand the history of my own ancestors.

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@layman,

Is "cheese eater" an ethnic slur? Or is it just a standard insult on a mud slinging thread.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

When people see an understandable reaction to Black kids being shot by police as a threat to Americans (as if the Black kids and their families aren't American), we have a problem with cultural nationalism.

The reaction of liberals is not understandable. It is deranged.

These black kids are being shot in self defense as they try to murder people.

Our society's problem is all the liberals. Get rid of the liberals and there will no longer be any problems with justified shootings.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It is hard to suggest that White Culture hasn't be highlighted by "extreme brutality and savagery".

Civilized society runs things much better than uncultured savages do. It is good when we step in and forcibly reform savages to civilized standards.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Pretty much everything that you now say about Muslims was said about Jews. They were considered dangerous, and treacherous, and un-American. They were said to keep to themselves and that they didn't assimilate. And they were said to be plotting the overthrow of the American system of Government to overthrow Christianity.

When it was said about Jews, it was entirely untrue. There really are Muslims out there who mean to kill all of us.

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@oralloy,

Good Oralloy,

Now why do you think that Black kids try to murder people far more often than White kids do?

1 Reply

David Horowitz: Democrats are the party of hate

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