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Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

 
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:20 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It takes a lot more than weight to make one into a pig, JW. The look on their faces, the high, snout-like nose, the feverous gleam in their eye as they envision a world without Muslims, or gays, or the poor.....

It's a real accomplishment, yaknow? Moore is just somewhat irrelevant compared to the armies of porcine Republicans out there.

Cycloptichorn


Cyclo - this is a bit over the edge, even for you, methinks.

Would you describe the Democrats as all blonde-haired and blue-eyed? Isn't that what another historical leader wanted for his country...say 60 or so years ago?

And you say a smiley face or two makes me incredible?
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:31 pm
McGentrix wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
The last election proved that the US is not a country that wants some weak-a$$ed leader that can't defend his own positions, much less the country. It's pitiful to read the crybaby tales of woe from the left and the continuous blubbering of another 4 years of Bush.


That has got to be the worst thing I've ever seen you write, McG.


I am sick of reading the same garbage posts by the same posters over and over and over. It's old and pathetic.


If we're just pitiful, blubbering crybabies, then why do you care what we have to say? If we're so obviously wrong, then why to you bother to read and reply? You're actions clearly do not match your words in this regard.

I find it pitiful that so many Bush supporters are trying to make out that his slim majority gives him a solid mandate.

I find it pitiful that the Bush apologists cannot see their own desparate need to believe in their and his infallibility.

I find it pitiful that anyone is afraid to discuss the voting irregularities that have happened in this country.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:33 pm
Quote:
Would you describe the Democrats as all blonde-haired and blue-eyed? Isn't that what another historical leader wanted for his country...say 60 or so years ago?


Take your straw man elsewhere, lol....

Quote:
And you say a smiley face or two makes me incredible?


Not incredible at all. It just loses it's impact when every post ends with a smile, is all.

Cycloptichorn
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:44 pm
Pay no attention to foolish assertions, JW. I like your smiley face. :wink:
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 12:57 pm
Thanks, O'Bill. Seeing that "wink" of yours following your rational posts on matters political has been known to brighten my outlook here a time or two Smile We need to clone you, LOL.

<Strength in numbers>
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 01:07 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:


I really don't ever want to read you type the words 'liberal elite' ever again, Timber....


I should be surprised to find example on these boards of my having done so.

Quote:
I'm glad you can use big words, though. Sure is impressive, despite the poor usage.


Are you disparaging my grammatical and stylistic wont, or my point of view?

Pigheaded is as pigheaded is. Rest assured your preferences and your prejudices are accorded my equal regard.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 01:23 pm
MerlinsGodson wrote:

If we're just pitiful, blubbering crybabies, then why do you care what we have to say? If we're so obviously wrong, then why to you bother to read and reply? You're actions clearly do not match your words in this regard.


Oh, some of us persist in the evidently futile, seeimgly silly excersize merely for the entertainment value.

Quote:
I find it pitiful that so many Bush supporters are trying to make out that his slim majority gives him a solid mandate.

A 3 point Presidential win hardly may be considered a mandate in and of itself. Considered in context of the political fortunes of The Democratic Party relative to The Republican Party over the past decade or so and a very different assessment is nescessary.

Quote:
I find it pitiful that the Bush apologists cannot see their own desparate need to believe in their and his infallibility.

I sense a pitiful desperation, yes, but not from the quarter to which you attribute it.

Quote:
I find it pitiful that anyone is afraid to discuss the voting irregularities that have happened in this country.


More pitiful is that one might perceive any reluctance to acknowledge, discuss and to address voting irregularities might exist. Yet more pitiful is that some misperceive the nature and effect of such irregularies and shortcomings as plainly exist.
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Harper
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:46 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I did, and the machine is fool-proof.



How do you know? Except that you don't care because your guy won. Like many I have spoken with, when I hit that green button, and saw my vote disappear into the ozone, I got a queasy feeling about whether or not my vote was counted.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 02:53 pm
Myself, I think the real insecurity isn't with the machines themselves, it's with the counting and tabulation on a windows PC which can easily be manipulated...

Why bother fixing hundreds, if not thousands, of voting machines, when it's much easier just to change the tallies at the other end?

Cycloptichorn
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 03:53 pm
Poor choice of words... as many of the posts on this thread illustrate :wink: I meant it was easy... And if there was any credible reason for concern, it wouldn't be an Internet only story. There are many, many better conspiracy's you folks could be uncovering. This is my personal favorite.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 03:55 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Poor choice of words... as many of the posts on this thread illustrate :wink: I meant it was easy... And if there was any credible reason for concern, it wouldn't be an Internet only story. There are many, many better conspiracy's you folks could be uncovering. This is my personal favorite.


If that is your favorite, then please feel free to spend your time with them.
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Harper
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 05:34 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Poor choice of words... as many of the posts on this thread illustrate :wink: I meant it was easy... And if there was any credible reason for concern, it wouldn't be an Internet only story. There are many, many better conspiracy's you folks could be uncovering. This is my personal favorite.


Of course, it was easy. But what assurance do you have that your vote was tabulated correctly. This is not an internet only story. I guess if you don't see it on Faux News, you don't believe it.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 05:55 pm
What assurance have I ever had that my vote was tabulated correctly?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 06:24 pm
Pardon a little digression here, pertinent to O'Bill's favorite conspiracy .... back in those days, I was very active in Amature Radio ... as in HAM stuff. Anyhow, don't remember now which missions they were, but a couple of 'em involved astronauts who themselves were HAMs, and there were a few live network voice chats with 'em. Somethin' that always struck me as funny about the hoax theories was that high-gain directional antennas were required ... very low-powered transmitters on their end, and all. Anyhow, the earth-bound antennas had to be aimed pretty precisely - within a second or so both azimuth and altitude, and actively tracked to compensate for motion between antenna and target - at the on-moon antennas, and the transmit-receive latency was consistent with only one round trip for the signals. If it was a hoax, it somehow had to involve circumventing both the speed of light and the angular placement of the moon relative to the North American Continent.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 06:46 pm
Harper wrote:
nimh wrote:
"The 'facts' that are being circulated on the Internet appear to be selectively chosen to make the point". That pretty much sums it up for me, its basically been the one point I've been making here.

Wow, how odd is it for those making a hypothesis to present facts that support their theory. Puhleeeeeze, gimme a break.

Er, yeah, but there's this point where proponents of a hypothesis might start cherry-picking facts that support their contention and ignoring everything that would debunk it - and that's the point where they would discredit themselves. And I think the NYT article showcased a few striking examples of that.

In fact, isn't the whole essence of critical reading about differentiating between those who honestly weigh the pros and cons of a contention and those who are willing to filter facts any way necessary to come to a certain conclusion?

I thought the NYT article was very effective, for example, in debunking some of the main contentions you have been going on.

Eg, here you are claiming it is "highly suspect" that, for the Florida "numbers to add up, Bush would have had to have gotten 100% of the Republicans, 100% of the Indies and 15% of the Democrat vote in 67 counties in Florida."

And here is a neat NYT graph that shows that it's very commonplace, in fact, for Republican presidential candidates to win counties where most of the voters are registered Democrats - simply because in Florida, as in many other states, it is not at all unusual for over 15% of Democrats to vote for the Republican candidate.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 06:52 pm
Harper wrote:
Question:

Who here has voted on a touchscreen machine with no receipt and how did you feel about it?

Almost everyone in Holland does it ... paper ballots have been replaced almost everywhere. I hadnt really spent a second thought about it until the issue was problematized in America ... Now that I've come to think about it, I would prefer a paper receipt to be kept for possible manual recount, yeah ... Not that I think any fraud has ever taken place here, but sure, why not ...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 06:58 pm
But nimh ... can't you see it? The evil, all-powerful, cynically schemin' Republicans have had years over which to massage those numbers and rewrite history ... I mean, c'mon, now ... that's perfectly obvious, otherwise those numbers wouldn't ... just plain couldn't ... be so inconvenient to this perfectly comfortin', wonderfully agreeable hypothesis. That's proof enough right there! What more could you possibly want? Twisted Evil
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 07:39 pm
I don't know nothing about a ham Radios, Timber. Are you saying you were able to ping off the source somehow and your calculations told you you'd pinged a radio at moon distance based on roundtrip time? Or you guessed by the gap between the Q & A? And where on earth does circumventing the speed of light fit in?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 07:59 pm
The earth-bound antennas had to track the moon ... actually a spot on the moon ... to maintain a sgnal link. Setup paramaters varied a bit depending on where in NA you were ... my window from Northern Ca was different from the window my brother used from Southern Wi, that of a freind in So Cal, and that of another freind in Ga for example, though the slew rates ... the movement of the antenna was that required to keep the antenna trained on a given spot on the moon for any of the antennae ... it was the standard, common lunar trracking rate as used in optical astronomy to keep the moon centered in the telescope's field of view. Apart from the clearly indicated aim point, triangulation of the angles used by the differing antennae (not just ours - there were lots - it was a big deal in the HAM world) provided a very accurate position fix for the target - the on-moon antenna. The time between Q here on Earth and A from up there was consistent with a roughly 250,000 mile leg each way ... a bit under 3 seconds. If the "On Moon" respondant were on earth, as opposed to actually on the moon, one more pair of 250,000 mile legs ... another roughly 3 seconds ... woulda been required between querry and response, as the querry definitely went from here to there and the response came from there to here. It worked out by geometry, it worked out by physics, it worked out by astronomy. Seemed probable to a point statistically indistinguishable from certainty. That was good enough for me. Laughing
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Nov, 2004 08:13 pm
How could you know they didn't begin answering 3 seconds or so before the question arrived? If it were faked, it would certainly have been scripted.
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