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Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2004 06:10 am
roger wrote:
Well, gee, nimh. That sounds like shooting an arrow and running out and painting a bullseye around it. Not even implying that isn't how it's done, but it seems pointless.

Are you talking about the exit polls and how they are weighted into conformity with the actual results when those are actually in?

Well, again, the goal of exit polls is not actually to second-guess the actual results, or to predict them (let alone with bullseye precision). Thats not what they're for. As fbaezer posted elsewhere here:

fbaezer wrote:
EXIT POLLS ARE NOT MADE TO PREDICT WINNERS, BUT TO STUDY THE DEMOGRAPHICS AND THE REASONS OF VOTERS.
"Fast counts" (counting a sample of prescincts) are used to predict election results.
Leaking exit-poll data to predict a winner is a mis-use of polls.


The reason one does exit polls is so as to be able to say, afterwards, for example: Bush receieved 44% of the Latino vote, which is 9% more than in 2000 (quoting that example by heart, mind you). To make such a kind of statement, you need to have done a poll of voters as they came out of the voting booth, since they dont write down their ethnicity/religiosity/union membership etc on their ballot forms.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 07:59 pm
Hadda reactivate this thread - there's new news. It seems indeed there was vote fraud - lots of it - in the 2004 election. This just in:

Quote:

American Center For Voting Rights
Legislative Fund
1300 Eye Street, NW
Suite 1050 East
Washington, DC 20005
(202) 962-0311

August 2005
Dear Fellow Americans:

The American Center for Voting Rights Legislative Fund ("ACVR Legislative Fund") is proud to present the following report as the most comprehensive and authoritative review of the facts surrounding allegations of vote fraud, intimidation and suppression made during the 2004 presidential election. Using court records, police reports and news articles, ACVR Legislative Fund presents this "after action report" which documents hundreds of incidents and allegations from around the country, notes whether a factual basis for the charge exists and assesses what actions, if any, were taken by the responsible party, law enforcement or the courts. Most importantly, ACVR Legislative Fund makes eight key recommendations that, if implemented, will secure the American election system so that all voters will have the ability to participate free of intimidation and harassment and no legitimate voter will be disenfranchised by an illegal vote.

These recommendations also call for accountability for the political parties and activist groups engaged in the political process by holding them responsible for the actions of their operatives seeking to cast illegal votes or to intimidate or harass voters.

ACVR Legislative Fund found that thousands of Americans were disenfranchised by illegal votes cast on Election Day 2004. For every illegal vote cast and counted on Election Day, a legitimate voter is disenfranchised. This report documents a coordinated effort by members of some organizations to rig the election system through voter registration fraud, the first step in any vote fraud scheme that corrupts the election process by burying local officials in fraudulent and suspicious registration forms.

ACVR Legislative Fund further found that, despite their heated rhetoric, paid Democrat operatives were far more involved in voter intimidation and suppression activities than were their Republican counterparts during the 2004 presidential election. Whether it was slashing tires on GOP get-out-the-vote vans in Milwaukee or court orders stopping the DNC from intimidating Republican volunteers in Florida, the evidence presented in this report shows that paid Democrat operatives were responsible for using the same tactics in 2004 that they routinely accuse Republicans of engaging in ...

SOURCE (Download Note: 368 Page .pdf file - Approx 13.2 MB)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:16 pm
Thanks for posting a link that crashed and closed all of my I.E. windows, Big Bird, that was really helpful.

I went to the home page of the American Center for Voting Rights. It is interesting. If one reads the "about us" link they state that they are a non-partisan group. How lovely, and how very reassuring.

On their home page, there is a linked article about voter registration fraud in Ohio. As you might well imagine, i checked that out, and discovered that said letter was signed by Mark F. Hearne. So i checked out Mr. Hearne, and discovered, at the Larhrop and Gage L.C. site, the following interesting tidbits about Mr. Hearne:

2004: National election counsel to Bush-Cheney '04. Advised campaign on issues of national election law and litigation strategy and recruited and organized local counsel and oversaw election litigation in all battleground states.

2003 - 2004: Vice-President and Director of Election Operations for Republican National Lawyers Association, Chair of National Election Law School and Seminar, Orange County, California, August 2003 and Milwaukee, Wisconsin in July 2004. Advisor to California State Party counsel on Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger campaign and California recall election on Election Day operations and litigation.

2000 - 2002: Republican National Lawyers Association, Vice-President-Director Election Operations, Counsel to Bush-Cheney - 2000, Inc., Coordinated Missouri Election Day Legal Team and counsel in Bush-Cheney, 2000, Inc. v. Baker (see above), Broward County, Florida Recount Team


Good to see that you have used such a sterling, unbiased source for your information, Big Bird.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:26 pm
Until voting machines leave a paper trail, there can be no expectation of fairness by any voter.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 09:14 pm
Brad Blog has done a good job of putting together who is who. Seems there was a major press release about this "big report" which is just propoganda.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001650.htm

(shouldn't crash any computers.) Cool
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 09:15 pm
Setanta wrote:
Thanks for posting a link that crashed and closed all of my I.E. windows, Big Bird, that was really helpful.
... Good to see that you have used such a sterling, unbiased source for your information, Big Bird.


The source was indicated to be a huge .pdf file - sorry if it crashed your machine, I prolly shoulda added a note that it is best to right-click and "Save As", rather than to open such big .pdf files right from your browser. My fault, there, and I'll try to keep it in mind.

As to the objectivity of the source, none claimed, either way, and the report details faults found on the parts of both Republicans and Democrats. The data from which the report was developed is all publically available - court records, police reports, news articles, reports from both partisan and non-partisan investigations, and the like. The report provides source reference for all data used, and details the methodology used for thye analysis by which the conclusions were drawn. Whether you agree with the politics of the report's publishing body, the report's data stands as valid, corroborated, and independently verifiable. Argue with the data, not with its collectors or with me.

edgar - I agree with your point regarding a failsafe, secure track-back methodology - something needs to be done along those lines, regardless the expense or inconvenmience. Perhaps the solution lies in the field of biometrics.
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 09:21 pm
Anybody heard anything from Clinton Curtis lately ?

Remember him ?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 10:00 pm
LionTamerX wrote:
Anybody heard anything from Clinton Curtis lately ?

Remember him ?


The Left wing of the blogosphere is all abuzz with Clinton Davis references, as is Air America - even postulating tie-ins with Rove (of course), but there seems to be no real news to go with the hysteria. Sorta leads one to wonder, don't it? I mean, you'd think Conyers would be all over such an explosive allegation - why isn't he? Ya think mebbe Conyers is in Rove's pocket too?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 11:49 pm
http://www.specialoperations.com/Aviation/Little_Birds/littlebird2.jpg

p.s. It's been too long... and due. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 12:08 am
timberlandko wrote:
As to the objectivity of the source, none claimed, either way, and the report details faults found on the parts of both Republicans and Democrats. The data from which the report was developed is all publically available - court records, police reports, news articles, reports from both partisan and non-partisan investigations, and the like. The report provides source reference for all data used, and details the methodology used for thye analysis by which the conclusions were drawn. Whether you agree with the politics of the report's publishing body, the report's data stands as valid, corroborated, and independently verifiable. Argue with the data, not with its collectors or with me.


I hadn't argued with you, rather with the reliability of your source--someone so partisan would automatically be suspect by the cui bono test of historiography, and principles of historiography are what i apply when i read the news, as they are very close to legal standards of evidence. Court records and police records, apart from convictions recorded in the former source, only demonstrate that someone has made an allegation, they do not indicate that the allegation is true. Were someone's tires slashed, it may well have been by a competing partisan canvasser, but simply filing a police report does not prove that. Furthermore, given the source, one would be left wondering if the right were engaged in the same tactics, but due to partisan preference, reports of those activities did not appear in the report. This means i have little reason to believe you when you assert that the reports data is "valid, corroborated." It may be independently verifiable, but obviously i personally have neither the time nor the resources to hunt down so many records of that character. A good deal of what i did eventually read there are post hoc accusations, to the effect that an event were alleged to occur, partisan opponents were in the vicinity, and therefore the accusation against the partisan opponents are proven. That is not to be taken without quibble. I can slash my own tires, and then file a police report. I can file a police report to that effect even were my tires not slashed. I can take someone to court on flimsy evidence, or no evidence at all. That a court record exists proves nothing.

Given the source, anyone should be sceptical. More than that, such an obviously partisan source portraying itself as non-partisan is doubly suspect.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 04:35 am
What set said.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 09:35 am
I'm still waiting for any counter-evidence. Were the tires of any Democrats slashed?

Did I miss the news stories of any Republicans being sentenced to jail for voter-fraud...as were some Democrats?

Reminds me of a quote I once saw by Huey Long:

"When I die, I want to be buried in Louisiana so I can stay active in politics".
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 10:35 am
Phony GOP Voting Rights Group Delivers Onslaught of Disinfo
Phony GOP 'Voting Rights' Group Delivers Onslaught of Disinfo Today!
'Non-Partisan' Republican Front Group, American Center for Voting Rights Releases Report, Six Press Releases Focusing on Democratic 'Election Fraud'

Massive Republican Voter Disenfranchisement Virtually Unmentioned, Phony Quotes by 'Democrat' Used in Releases

In a massive new attempt today to disinform the American Voting Public and sidetrack the true bi-partisan Election Reform movement in this country, the phony "voting rights" group -- calling...

In a massive new attempt today to disinform the American Voting Public and sidetrack the true bi-partisan Election Reform movement in this country, the phony "voting rights" group -- calling themselves deceptively "American Center for Voting Rights" (ACVR) -- issued a new report today charging that Democrats were "Far More Involved In Voter Intimidation And Suppression In 2004."

Five different heavily Democratic-leaning cities were cited in each of six different Press Releases issued at once via US Newswire within the last hour as being amongst the "top Election Fraud Hotspots" in the country. The sixth Press Release was focused on pushing the ACVR propoganda claim: "Democrat Operatives Far More Involved In Voter Intimidation, Suppression In 2004".

The deceptively-self-described "non-partisan" ACVR, as previously exposed in a series of exclusive articles on The BRAD BLOG, is a Republican front group created by high-level GOP operatives expressly for the purpose of spreading disinformation to sidetrack the Election Reform movement in this country.

Both of ACVR's main players continue to be tied to the upper echelons of the GOP and are longtime Republican partisan operatives. Executive Director Mark F. "Thor" Hearne, has been a backroom player for years in the Missouri and national GOP parties and was most recently the National General Counsel for Bush/Cheney '04 Inc. Their Press Spokesman Jim Dyke was the RNC Communications Director during the 2004 election responsible for arranging to have operatives dress up in "Flipper" costumes at John Kerry election events.

Though they claim to be "non-partisan" and enjoy tax-exempt status as a 501(c)3 organization, they have never shared their 501(c)3 paperwork with The BRAD BLOG as requested (and as they had promised many months ago) despite what we understand is a legal requirement to do so.

Hearne was called to testify as an "expert witness" at a House Administrative Committee Hearing on the Ohio election just days after the creation of the phony group. The ACVR was the only such "Voting Rights" group called to participate in the hearings. Hearne misrepresented himself at those hearings only as a "longtime voting rights advocate," saying nothing about his ties to Bush/Cheney and the Republican Party. The hearings were chaired by Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH), who is himself now under investigation for various alleged ethics violations.

We're on the move today, so haven't yet gotten to plow through the ACVR's full report, but in an onslaught of Press Releases today, the ACVR is clearly attempting to get the message out that it's Democrats, not Republicans, who primarily engage in "Election Fraud".

Ironically, they identify "non-partisan" (yes, they use the quotes!) groups such as ACORN as inappropriately registering Democratic voters. And though the ACVR report is identified in each of the Press Releases as "the most comprehensive and authoritative review of the facts surrounding allegations of vote fraud, intimidation and suppression made during the 2004 presidential election" there are no references to the thousands of well-known allegations of Republican intimidation and vote-suppression around the country or the Voter Registration forms collected and destroyed by groups tied to Republican Operative Nathan Sproul and Associates. Those registration forms -- from Democratic voters only -- were alleged to have been shredded in key swing states including Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Oregon and Nevada.

This article from Boston University's Daily Free Press, amongst many others, details the many charges against Sproul and Associates and the phony "non-partisan" Voter Registration groups he set up around the country. Sproul was paid millions by Team Bush and attempted to hide it according to the Baltimore Chronicle and several other reports, and is the subject of a criminal investigation related to these matters in the state of Oregon. Much more on Sproul & Associates is available here.

No reference to Sproul or the many dirty tricks said to have been conducted by groups he organized are mentioned in any of the ACVR Press Releases today.

One new tactic of the ACVR's revealed in the flurry of Press Releases, is the addition of quotes from "ACVR Legislative Fund board member" Brian Lunde who was a DNC Executive Director at one point apparently. Press Reports, however, reveal Lunde as having worked closely with Bush Political Operative, Karl Rove and having represented several big business organizations which are supportive of Bush Administration initiatives.

The Press Releases, one each for the five so-called "Election Fraud 'Hot Spot'" cities, each quote Lunde as saying the same thing, but change the city referred to by Lunde in the quote.

For example, in the Release on St. Louis, claimed the "No. 3 Election Fraud 'Hot Spot'", Lunde is quoted as saying:

"Election after election, political parties, election officials and the news media act surprised when fraud, intimidation and suppression activities occur. Now everyone is on notice that there's a problem in the St. Louis area and those who don't participate in a solution will be held accountable," said Brian Lunde, ACVR Legislative Fund board member.

The city is then replaced in the Press Release on Seattle, claiming the city to be the "No. 3 Election Fraud 'Hot Spot' in America":

"Election after election, political parties, election officials and the news media act surprised when fraud, intimidation and suppression activities occur. Now everyone is on notice that there's a problem in Seattle and those who don't participate in a solution will be held accountable," said Brian Lunde, ACVR Legislative Fund board member.

The other three Press Releases referring to the top "Election Fraud 'Hot Spots'" have the same quote from Lunde, changed only to refer to the city in question: Philadelphia, Milwaukee and Cleveland.

A Washington Post article from 2003 identified Lunde as working closely with Bush political director/operative Rove:

For many on the list, the Rove connection is a mutually beneficial two-way street. Brian Lunde, former executive director of the Democratic National Committee and one of the few Democrats on the list, helped the Bush 2000 campaign round up Democratic supporters.

After Bush took office, Lunde has recommended Democrats for White House appointments, especially in cases requiring selections from both parties. During consideration of trade proposals and protective measures for the steel industry, Lunde could suggest to Rove potential Democratic supporters, which, in turn, advanced the interests of such Lunde clients as the Business Roundtable and Nucor Steel, which backed the administration initiatives.

As mentioned, because we are travelling this afternoon, we've not yet had time to try and reach Lunde for comment. However, Dyke's phone number is given on each press release as 843-532-1192 for those who may have any questions.

The ACVR's homepage where their report, and several other pages of appalling disinformation is available is at www.AC4VR.com.

This Saturday is the 40th anniversary of the landmark Voting Rights Act. No doubt, today's reports and press releases were meant to coincide and continue the gross insult that the American Center for Voting Rights represents to the true Voting Rights activists in this country, many of whom have given their lives in support of such rights over the past century.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 11:16 am
JustWonders wrote:
I'm still waiting for any counter-evidence. Were the tires of any Democrats slashed?


I'm still waiting for proof, were any tires of Republicans slashed?

Quote:
Did I miss the news stories of any Republicans being sentenced to jail for voter-fraud...as were some Democrats?


What evidence do you have that any members of the Democratic party were jailed for voter fraud in the last election?

Quote:
Reminds me of a quote I once saw by Huey Long:

"When I die, I want to be buried in Louisiana so I can stay active in politics".


I'm sure you were very eager to put in what you consider a clever quote, but this, of course, has no relevance to this discussion. It took me a matter of minutes to track down Mr. Hearne as a major Republican operative who is posing as a voting rights advocate. Read Aunt Bee's post. When you have something substantiable for your silly accusations, come back and see us.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 11:55 am
So, the report is to be discounted as a partisan smear, based on the spin of a partisan blogger. yeah, that's consistent.

Here's something to consider:

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9675/tireslashers7pu.jpg

Quote:
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 11:57 am
So you have a single complaint filed, from which you and JW both feel justified in extrapolating a pattern of Democratic party employees practicing wide-spread voter fraud?

How quaint. Rather like building a castle from a grain of sand.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 02:57 pm
Not at all Set - I just dragged details on that one up because you singled it out as questionable. Its a real criminal indictment, The State of Wisconsin vs named defendants, charges stemming from a joint Milwaukee Police Department/FBI investigation which went on for 3 months, trial set for January of '06. It is not a "mere allegation" - there is hard "who, what, where, when, how" evidence on file. Barring plea bargaining, it looks real bad for those boys.


Now, back to the main subject - the report at discussion details irregularities and misdeeds by both camps. However, reported incidents and actual charges filed - criminal actions brought - in various states and cities, all well documented public record, are the basis for the report's contention. Rail at the messenger all you want - the message remains.

From the report, pages 30-33, consider this compilation of documented incidents:
Quote:

Now, if someone can produce a similar list of Republican skullduggery against Democrats during the 2004 election, as verifiably reported by mainstream media - print or broadcast - more power to you. I'd certainly be interested to see such a list. There'd be a message there.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 05:54 pm
Setanta wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
I'm still waiting for any counter-evidence. Were the tires of any Democrats slashed?


I'm still waiting for proof, were any tires of Republicans slashed?

Quote:
Did I miss the news stories of any Republicans being sentenced to jail for voter-fraud...as were some Democrats?


What evidence do you have that any members of the Democratic party were jailed for voter fraud in the last election?

Quote:
Reminds me of a quote I once saw by Huey Long:

"When I die, I want to be buried in Louisiana so I can stay active in politics".


I'm sure you were very eager to put in what you consider a clever quote, but this, of course, has no relevance to this discussion. It took me a matter of minutes to track down Mr. Hearne as a major Republican operative who is posing as a voting rights advocate. Read Aunt Bee's post. When you have something substantiable for your silly accusations, come back and see us.


Well, I see Timber has already posted the charges against the tire slashers. Of course, you probably don't see this as substantial, but consider that they weren't just vandalizing automobiles, but attempting (and succeeding) to interfere with a national election.

I posted my "evidence" of Democrats being convicted of voter-fraud here (in the "Bush Supporters" thread) some time ago. I can't be held responsible if you miss the good stuff Smile

Of course, I'm sure you'll still see all of this as "silly accusations", but those five Democrats are, as we speak, learning prison lingo Smile
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 06:06 pm
Nothing about my response changes, Big Bird, most of your allegations are just that, allegations. The majority constitute post hoc fallacies which have no bearing upon an accusation of wide-spread voter fraud. They also suffer from the statistical fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances. We only have your assertion that there is not a comparable or even a greater incidence of this type of activity by Republicans. Mr. Hearne willfully misrepresents his front organization as non-partisan, for which there is an old and honored term in English--Liar. The charitable assumption for me to make when taking note of your original post is that you did not know that the alleged voting rights organization is a front for two individuals deep in the councils of Republican election machinery.

Your link, JW, does not in any way suggest that the individuals in question are now incarcerated, although i'd stipulate as much for sake of argument. Once again, the fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances. What are the total number of incidents of voter fraud in any given election? Who is responsible for such incidents? To what extent can such incidents reasonably be asserted to constitute effective interference with the election process?

Neither of you make a compelling case.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 02:47 pm
Oh, don't fret none, Set - I held no expectation your viewpoint might change. It appears, however, the report is getting legs; reference to it is beginning to appear elsewhere than in the particularly partisan forae (wherein its received roughly equal representation both Right and Left, with the predictable spins). Its quite possible the attention gained will spur independent research, which, in turn, however it turns out, might just tickle legislators into proactively addressing the glaring flaws of our electoral system.

I must say also that your objections and caveats - essentially just attacking the messenger - do nothing to challenge, let alone diminish the findings of the report.
As to "incarcerated" vs "Convicted" ... now, thats a bit disingenuous. Of course, appeals always have potential, certainly. However, in the St. Louis matter, 4 of the indicted pled guilty and have been sentenced, with lenience given for co-operation in the prosecution of the 5 convicted at trial back in June. Sentencing is to be set for them sometime in August, and, as regards the convictions, so far no appeals have been filed.

Oh, and I never said a similar list of Republican skullduggery didn't exist; an example of which I am unaware well may be out there someplace. As I said, I'd love to see one meeting the qualifications, if it can be found.
0 Replies
 
 

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