Sickening

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

Resistance to authority and refusal to submit to power are the most powerful and most overlooked sources of political change. These activities are outside of normal politics, but, often an integral part of them.

Just look at the civil rights movement. There are tons of examples of the people resisting authority and not submitting to power which led to civil rights legislation that made certain guarantees from the federal and state governments to all people. The timing of the legislation was not a coincidence.

However, there are always the cases of Timmothy McVeigh, where he can blow up a federal building, murder a few hundred people, and not make a god-damn scratch in the political process all while being executed

I am much more afraid of flag waving than flag burning.

As far as the photo... I probably wouldn't feel very comfortable with these folks and I don't truly know their beliefs or motivations. But... I defend their right to express anger and dissent, even in this extreme way.

I also feel that there is a responsibility for "progressives", and I do include myself here, to challenge blind patriotism. This often means knocking over the cultural icons that are at the center of a nationalistic fervor.
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I'm glad you said 'my guess'. Otherwise someone might think you actually put some thought into that completely fictional drivel. Come on ALV, do you really believe that? Did Clinton quash dissent? Are you maybe confusing the desire for rigorous thought in our compatriots with an intolerance for other views?

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You are correct, E, that these 'progressives' have every right to protest as they do.

But let's examine what would happen if the tables were turned. Let's say the ?'progressives' are the one's holding power, getting to decide who can protest and what they can say.

What would happen then? My guess is that the 'progressives' would not allow any kind of discourse or disagreement with any of their beliefs. One only has to witness the lack of diversity of opinion on most college campuses to see that these people are nothing but fascists. They have no trace of possessing an open mind, or allowing any sort of political thought that differs from their own.

They truly are the Nazis of the 21 century.

I will remind you that it was the Nazi's who used their flag, national pride, and a call for unity to win the mindless support of the German people. The Nazi's relied on Unity and very efficient at stomping out any "wacko luntic fringe" that would dissent..

Don't you wish there were more of the "wacko lunatic fringe" in Germany at that time?

Ah, ALV, so your comments were aimed directly at those specific people then? That's not the way I read it, but OK.

I do feel that blind patriotism is a problem with this war. I don't feel that Americans are acting or thinking rationally. A symptom of this is that people keep bringing up 9/11 when we are talking about Iraq. I don't feel that this is a prelude to a Nazi type rule.

Craven de Kere wrote:

So basically, you decided to stoop to that level. <shrug>

When in Rome.......

because Bush is such a loser by comparison.

Phoenix, it was all I could do not to cry when I heard him make that speech... because Bush is such a loser by comparison.