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Sickening

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 09:46 am
BBB
Bin Laden has been very forthright about his motives. He is copying his success against the former Soviet Union. He believes his fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan greatly contributed to their bankruptcy and collapse. He believes he can bankrupt the US using the same tactics. With Bush's deficit help, he may succeed in that goal.

He has attacked or planned attacks against financial profit centers in the US. The WTC was one. The other was the Los Angeles airport, which was prevented by a lucky terrorist capture. These targets would impact our economy in devastating ways. His future targets will represent the same goal. He has a habit of going back to failed attacks until he succeeds. His first attck on the WTC failed and he tried again and succeeded. L.A. airport is not out of danger from that pattern. Nor is the White House or Capital. I think bin Laden would look at major bridges in New York or San Francisco because of the financial damage to the economy their destruction would cause.

The attack against the Pentagon and the failed attack against either the White House or the Capital, when the plane crashed short of its target, would have also devastated the financial markets.

Once our economy is severely damaged, we won't be able to pursue our long-time mischief overseas, including in the Middle East. Bin Laden's goal is to get non-muslims out of Muslim countries around the world, and to overthrow the Saudi royal family. In this goal, bin Laden has the support of Iran.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 03:15 pm
Quote:
Why would he lie and tell us it is in our hands? Because he knows that we will never agree. He sees the rift between us right now and is exploiting it. The more we argue among ourselves the less resources we have to argue with him. He lives longer and we tear EACH OTHER apart... he doesn't need to do a thing... it's working.


Wrong.

Bin Laden is using us to garner popular support for his movement amongs his OWN PEOPLE.

They sum it up better in the following link than I can here -

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/10/01247/557

Basically, the extremists of Islaam are baiting the extremists of Christianity (who just happen to run our government) into attacking them, and it's working....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 04:18 pm
Quote:
To a certain extent, the logic of reprisal is irresistible. Who can sit quietly while someone repeatedly hits his face, even if he knows the attacker only wants him to strike back? Ignoring one blow just invites the next


So if we ignore them them... they try harder... more Americans die.

Quote:
However, we need not respond with overwhelming force that kills the innocent and guilty alike. It is important that we husband and cultivate the moral capital that an attack will give us, not spend it all (and then some) in an over-reaching reprisal. This was the mistake Bush made in Iraq. The world was on our side -- yes, even France -- when we brought down the Taliban. If we had captured Bin Laden in Tora Bora and declared ourselves satisfied, we could have gained stature, even in much of the Islamic world.


Agreed ... but then we end up back here...

Quote:
But Al Qaeda is a movement, not the work of one man or even a small inner circle. Its ideas and strategies are widely distributed. If Bin Laden's sword falls, someone will pick it up.


Which leads us back here...

Quote:
To a certain extent, the logic of reprisal is irresistible. Who can sit quietly while someone repeatedly hits his face, even if he knows the attacker only wants him to strike back? Ignoring one blow just invites the next


Which leads us back here...

Quote:
However, we need not respond with overwhelming force that kills the innocent and guilty alike. It is important that we husband and cultivate the moral capital that an attack will give us, not spend it all (and then some) in an over-reaching reprisal. This was the mistake Bush made in Iraq. The world was on our side -- yes, even France -- when we brought down the Taliban. If we had captured (Insert name of new leader) in Tora Bora and declared ourselves satisfied, we could have gained stature, even in much of the Islamic world.



It seems to me that a free Muslim world, one not manipulated by a terrorist to gain support for his own cause, is the way to end terrorism.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 04:49 pm
You seem to forget that there were terrorists long before the Muslims got their panties in a bunch.

McVeigh wasn't a Muslim, was he?

Quote:
It seems to me that a free Muslim world, one not manipulated by a terrorist to gain support for his own cause, is the way to end terrorism.


Noone ever bothered to ask them if they wanted our freedom, especially at the cost of dozens of thousands of lives...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 08:06 am
Come on Cy... you're grasping for straws now.

Look... your own article said it:

Quote:
Question 1: What is the first and biggest obstacle between you and victory?

The first and biggest obstacle to your victory is that the vast majority of the people who sympathize with your issue are not violent extremists. They may agree with you in principle. They may even sound like violent extremists late at night over their beverage of choice. But when the hammer comes down, they won't be there. There are weeds in the garden and final exams coming up and deadlines at the office. Good luck with that car bombing. Call me next time, maybe things will have settled down by then.

Most people, most of the time, just want to get along. They'll accept a little inconvenience, ignore a few insults, and smile at people they hate if it allows them to get on with their lives. Most people on both sides of your issue just wish the issue would go away. If you're not careful, those apathetic majorities will get together and craft a compromise. And where's your revolution then?



The author lays out this doom and gloom story that talks in circles... do nothing, get hit... do to much, we are bankrupting our country... do just enough someone else "picks up the sword" and we start all over again. He is so blinded by his partisan rage that he can't even see the answer in his VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH.

If muslims are free to worship as they want, shop as they want, vote as they want, work as they want, rasie their kids as they want... why would they even bother with a lunatic like Bin Laden? Again your article states it best:

And where's your revolution then?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 10:22 am
I can't see how the majority will have their opinions swayed by those photographed.

Apparently, tollerance is a one way street for those folks.

Very sad display.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 10:38 am
Quote:
The author lays out this doom and gloom story that talks in circles... do nothing, get hit... do to much, we are bankrupting our country... do just enough someone else "picks up the sword" and we start all over again. He is so blinded by his partisan rage that he can't even see the answer in his VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH.

If muslims are free to worship as they want, shop as they want, vote as they want, work as they want, rasie their kids as they want... why would they even bother with a lunatic like Bin Laden? Again your article states it best:

And where's your revolution then?


Your logic is circular.

According to you, we're going to get attacked no matter what action we take. I state that you have no evidence whatsoever that this is true.

It is easily arguable that Bin Laden is not only responding to actions that America (and our ally Israel) have taken, but that he is attempting to use the Americans to force change in the middle east.

You state that

Quote:
If muslims are free to worship as they want, shop as they want, vote as they want, work as they want, rasie their kids as they want... why would they even bother with a lunatic like Bin Laden?


Let me give you a little hint: most Muslims do consider themselves free to do the things you are talking about. Just because their culture differs from ours doesn't mean they would be happier in our culture.

It is the height of arrogance to assume that people's lives all over the world would immediately improve if we ATTACK their country and INSTALL a democracy.... Bin Laden is counting on exactly that arrogance (which Bush possesses in spades) to polarize his own people (Dar al-Islaam) into throwing off their own leaders.

I suggest you go back and read the article again, as you have missed every single good point they make in it.... especially the part where they discuss who the real enemies of Bin Laden are....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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