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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 08:49 am
Thomas:-

That is much too narrow for my taste.Stud farms operate along similar lines.And I'm no horse.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:03 am
George:-

Some of us put it down to our poetic tradition which,as you must know,is beyond compare.All our leaders are educated into that tradition to a fair extent.We don't take much seriously.Anybody who steps out of line too far in that regard gets laughed at.
But what you do is catching here so I'm having a mite's go at straightening you out a bit and particularly your lower middle-class which looks as dangerous as any bunch of bolsheviks could hope to be.

We will muddle through on the EU and when we do watch out.
No matter how many dissidents get exported there will be an endless supply.

It's a pleasant change to read a considered post.

Regards.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:09 am
Meanwhile, Bill Bradley, who run for the Democratic nomination in 2000, has a thing or two to say about the topic of this thread.

Bill Bradley wrote:
A Party Inverted
By BILL BRADLEY

FIVE months after the presidential election Democrats are still pointing fingers at one another and trying to figure out why Republicans won. Was the problem the party's position on social issues or taxes or defense or what? Were there tactical errors made in the conduct of the campaign? Were the right advisers heard? Was the candidate flawed?

Before deciding what Democrats should do now, it's important to see what Republicans have done right over many years. When the Goldwater Republicans lost in 1964, they didn't try to become Democrats. They tried to figure out how to make their own ideas more appealing to the voters. As part of this effort, they turned to Lewis Powell, then a corporate lawyer and soon to become a member of the United States Supreme Court. In 1971 he wrote a landmark memo for the United States Chamber of Commerce in which he advocated a sweeping, coordinated and long-term effort to spread conservative ideas on college campuses, in academic journals and in the news media.

To further the party's ideological and political goals, Republicans in the 1970's and 1980's built a comprehensive structure based on Powell's blueprint. Visualize that structure as a pyramid.

You've probably heard some of this before, but let me run through it again. Big individual donors and large foundations - the Scaife family and Olin foundations, for instance - form the base of the pyramid. They finance conservative research centers like the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute and the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, entities that make up the second level of the pyramid.

The ideas these organizations develop are then pushed up to the third level of the pyramid - the political level. There, strategists like Karl Rove or Ralph Reed or Ken Mehlman take these new ideas and, through polling, focus groups and careful attention to Democratic attacks, convert them into language that will appeal to the broadest electorate. That language is sometimes in the form of an assault on Democrats and at other times in the form of advocacy for a new policy position. The development process can take years. And then there's the fourth level of the pyramid: the partisan news media. Conservative commentators and networks spread these finely honed ideas.

At the very top of the pyramid you'll find the president. Because the pyramid is stable, all you have to do is put a different top on it and it works fine.

It is not quite the "right wing conspiracy" that Hillary Clinton described, but it is an impressive organization built consciously, carefully and single-mindedly. The Ann Coulters and Grover Norquists don't want to be candidates for anything or cabinet officers for anyone. They know their roles and execute them because they're paid well and believe, I think, in what they're saying. True, there's lots of money involved, but the money makes a difference because it goes toward reinforcing a structure that is already stable.

To understand how the Democratic Party works, invert the pyramid. Imagine a pyramid balancing precariously on its point, which is the presidential candidate.

Democrats who run for president have to build their own pyramids all by themselves. There is no coherent, larger structure that they can rely on. Unlike Republicans, they don't simply have to assemble a campaign apparatus - they have to formulate ideas and a vision, too. Many Democratic fundraisers join a campaign only after assessing how well it has done in assembling its pyramid of political, media and idea people.

There is no clearly identifiable funding base for Democratic policy organizations, and in the frantic campaign rush there is no time for patient, long-term development of new ideas or of new ways to sell old ideas. Campaigns don't start thinking about a Democratic brand until halfway through the election year, by which time winning the daily news cycle takes precedence over building a consistent message. The closest that Democrats get to a brand is a catchy slogan.

Democrats choose this approach, I believe, because we are still hypnotized by Jack Kennedy, and the promise of a charismatic leader who can change America by the strength and style of his personality. The trouble is that every four years the party splits and rallies around several different individuals at once. Opponents in the primaries then exaggerate their differences and leave the public confused about what Democrats believe.

In such a system tactics trump strategy. Candidates don't risk talking about big ideas because the ideas have never been sufficiently tested. Instead they usually wind up arguing about minor issues and express few deep convictions. In the worst case, they embrace "Republican lite" platforms - never realizing that in doing so they're allowing the Republicans to define the terms of the debate.

A party based on charisma has no long-term impact. Think of our last charismatic leader, Bill Clinton. He was president for eight years. He was the first Democrat to be re-elected since Franklin Roosevelt. He was smart, skilled and possessed great energy. But what happened? At the end of his tenure in the most powerful office in the world, there were fewer Democratic governors, fewer Democratic senators, members of Congress and state legislators and a national party that was deep in debt. The president did well. The party did not. Charisma didn't translate into structure.

If Democrats are serious about preparing for the next election or the next election after that, some influential Democrats will have to resist entrusting their dreams to individual candidates and instead make a commitment to build a stable pyramid from the base up. It will take at least a decade's commitment, and it won't come cheap. But there really is no other choice.

Source

I guess Lola will feel confirmed in her views, but I think he, too, thinks too much about marketing and too little about the product marketed.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:15 am
As long as the Democrats focus on marketing strategy and ignore a deficit in ideas and vision and progressive policy, I think they will continue to help keep electing Republicans to public office.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:17 am
That was an interesting article.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:34 am
I agree. His thinking on marketing and the party structure is profound and insightful.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:37 am
Quote:
As long as the Democrats focus on marketing strategy and ignore a deficit in ideas and vision and progressive policy, I think they will continue to help keep electing Republicans to public office.


Hmm, I think what may get some democrats elected in the next cycle is the Republicans ignoring the Deficit. Your 'progressive policies' (what a joke) can't seem to reconcile themselve with a balanced budget; and sooner or later the bill collectors are going to come knocking.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:40 am
Perhaps Cyclop, but the Dems have been miscalculating what 'gets politicians in trouble' since 1994.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 11:19 am
blatham wrote:
The other presumption is your understanding of America and its politics. I said earlier that, in this instance, the proper study of America is America. Of course there are similar values and cultural notions shared in all Western World nations. But it hardly follows that profound differences do not exist, differences that arise out of local histories. Just consider for example the differences between Alabama and New York within a single nation, not to mention France and America for goodness sakes. Or consider the two New World nations of America and Canada which ought to be even more alike than USA/Germany. Yet in Canada the evangelical tradition has been an insignificant element in political activism whereas it has been a fundamental part of American political dynamics since the beginning. That is local historical reality. You presume too much.


Blatham's words above were addtessed to Thomas. Overall my impression is that Thomas' understanding of the "mysteries" of the United States is likely better than Blatham's.

Alabama and Manhattan are different from one another, just as are Toronto and Alberta, and Paris and Provence. The historical origins of the differences in the overall Anglo society in Canada and that in the United States are quite obvious. Apart from the Maratime provinces, Canada got the Tories and we got the Dissenters. During the Revolutionarty war we even chased our few Tories up to Canada, where they could find happiness among the other slaves who still loved their English chains.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 11:36 am
spendius wrote:

Some of us put it down to our poetic tradition which,as you must know,is beyond compare.All our leaders are educated into that tradition to a fair extent.We don't take much seriously.Anybody who steps out of line too far in that regard gets laughed at.


I do have a taste for the delights of English poetry, and it is wonderful, though not quite beyond compare. Ovid, Horace, Martial and others put the Romans in the same league, and, of course, Irish poetry, from the coarse "Midnight Court" to Yeat's "Wild Swans oF Cooley" or "Song of the Wandering Aengus" and many others are their equal. (One should also not forget that old Edward Fitzgerald was an Irishman.)

Quote:
But what you do is catching here so I'm having a mite's go at straightening you out a bit and particularly your lower middle-class which looks as dangerous as any bunch of bolsheviks could hope to be.
Well, we are not quite so concerned with such things as 'class', though we are as adept at snobbery as the best of them. I don't think the folks you are referring to are nearly as dangerous as the average British football fan. Both are noisy, but inarticulate.

Quote:
No matter how many dissidents get exported there will be an endless supply.


A very good - and hopeful - point. I hope it continues and that it survives the amalgamation with a Continental Europe still fascinated with its sterile, abstract, 'pure reason' model of the Enlightenment. I much preferred the English/Scottish one, and hope you don't lose sight of it.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:05 pm
Quote:
Perhaps Cyclop, but the Dems have been miscalculating what 'gets politicians in trouble' since 1994.


Forget what gets politicians in trouble; they are OUR bills to pay, and when the bill collector comes calling, it's not like it won't affect every single one of us, Republican or Democrat.

Fiscal solvency and responsibility shouldn't rely on party affiliation...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:11 pm
Nope it shouldn't but the Democrats didn't have any fiscal restraint until the GOP took control of Congress. And the Bush administration has definitely been less than exemplary on that score which puts them and Congress in a bad light on that score.

The question is, however, what does the electorate want most from their elected officials? And fiscal responsibility is pretty far down on the list on all the polls when it comes to the reasons people vote for whomever. So, the Dems can go right ahead and try to win votes by demonizing the GOP on that score. And the GOP will go right on winning most of the seats in Congress, most of the governorships, and the presidency. The Dems can't win by just bashing the GOP. They have to have vision and ideas to address the problem.

And the day the Dems come up with better ideas than the GOP has and demonstrates a conviction to implement them (one of the main problems the Democrats have had), then I won't hesitate for a minute to vote for them.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:19 pm
Cyc, I expect the Dem's fixation on "The Deficit" will serve them about as well have their fixations on such things as recession, job loss, vote fraud, "War for Oil", anti-gun legislation, and gay marriage. Quite a track record there. Gotta admire the consistency.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:21 pm
when three or more are gathered together there will be alignment, this is what we all "government". It will have as it's sole purpose the subjucation of the minority by means of coercion. A better govenment is one that restricts the ability of the majority to coerce the minority.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 12:38 pm
And likewise to prevent a tyranny of the minority, Dys - ain't no way to make everyone happy every time. Thats what just and equitable governance is all about.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:25 pm
But it ain't a government with any protection from the majority.

Timber,

You're all over this board gloating most of the time about how little power the minority has at the moment. Now you want to talk to us about tyranny of the minority? Come on, you know you can't have it both ways. You say so yourself, over and over and over again.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:05 pm
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf

I need someone to help me out with this one if they get the chance...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:38 pm
Just pointin' out, Lola, that the system as it is prevents the tyranny of the minority - evidently much to the displeasure of the minority.

Cyc, I'm thoroughly familiar with the reality-stretchin' attempts to explain why Edison-Mitofsky got it wrong. The short answer is their methodology was flawed, and that widely circulated, unsupportable election-day assumptions based on incorrect application of incomplete and inconclusive results form the basis of any and all complaints of "We wuz robbed".
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:48 pm
Yeah, that's the short answer, Timber. But where and how exactly WAS the methodology flawed? That is the part that I can't figure out.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 03:26 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Yeah, that's the short answer, Timber. But where and how exactly WAS the methodology flawed? That is the part that I can't figure out.

Cycloptichorn


The flaws have been quite widely discovered, disclosed, discussed, disected and detailed. There are endless examples, but here, try these for a start:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/19/politics/main667756.shtml

http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2005/week3/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6840933/

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7664

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109310

http://www.exit-poll.net/election-night/EvaluationJan192005.pdf (Note: 77 page .pdf file) - the full report from Edison-Mitofsky

http://elections.ssrc.org/research/ExitPollReport031005.pdf (Note: 18 page .pdf file)

http://www.lmu.edu/csla/press/releases_2005/Files/About_the_Poll.pdf (Note: 7 page .pdf file)


Enjoy.
0 Replies
 
 

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