Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

Soz, I'm not basing my estimation of whether Bush is a "good communicator" on whether I like him or not. Bush is a far cry from my idea of a good communicator. A childish "aw shucks" was apparently good enough. But I give it no importance when compared to the influence of Karl Rove and Ralph Reed, and such. It's Karl Rove that's the good communicator.

Bush's re-election does not prove that he's effective in communicating. Correlation doesn't prove causality. If we say it's all who the candidate is, we'll continue to offer up our own "good enough" (or even excellent) candidates and lose and lose and lose. Let's not make this mistake again. And who cares what Bush is.......let's not focus overly on him.

I say let's learn how to sell a candidate. And how to package our message. And then let's get the best candidate we can find. Surely we can do better than the likes of Bush.

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Remember,

Bush is just the country-boy front man for the thugs who make the policies. Simple as that.

Kerry should have spent more time attacking the Bush team, and hammering that point home... you find people willing to bend over backwards to defend Bush, but few willing to defend his cronies...

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Remember,

Bush is just the country-boy front man for the thugs who make the policies. Simple as that.

Kerry should have spent more time attacking the Bush team, and hammering that point home... you find people willing to bend over backwards to defend Bush, but few willing to defend his cronies...

Cycloptichorn

Are you kidding? All Kerry did was attack Bush, which was a major failing. He emphasized what he was against at the expense of his message of what he was for.

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Larry.........you crack me up! You are speaking tongue in cheek, aren't you? If Kerry attacking Bush was a major failing........what about the Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth" folks.......those guys were sweet little kittens, just looking to spread the truth.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Remember,

Bush is just the country-boy front man for the thugs who make the policies. Simple as that.

Kerry should have spent more time attacking the Bush team, and hammering that point home... you find people willing to bend over backwards to defend Bush, but few willing to defend his cronies...

Cycloptichorn

No, Cy, that would've made him sound like a conspiracy theorist, which is political suicide, even if there is a they out to get you. That job falls to the rank and file minions behind the candidates, the swift boat vets, Michael Moore, and now the voters nationwide get to do that job. Evil or Very Mad

Help me pull down the curtain and expose who's behind the wizard of Emerald City! Twisted Evil

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Quote:

Are you kidding? All Kerry did was attack Bush, which was a major failing. He emphasized what he was against at the expense of his message of what he was for.

He should have spent less time attacking Bush and more time attacking his cabinet (out of the attack time).

People complain that he didn't have a message, but he did. I don't think that part mattered one bit to the legions of rednecks, terrified parents, greedy yuppies and evangelicals who voted for Bush.

Cycloptichorn

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"People complain that he didn't have a message, but he did. I don't think that part mattered one bit to the legions of rednecks, terrified parents, greedy yuppies and evangelicals who voted for Bush."

Insulting the majority of the electorate is not a winning formula either. Very Happy

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Good thing I'm not running for office, then, isn't it?

Being a private citizen gives one the freedom to tell it like it is.

Cycloptichorn

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Quote:

Good thing I'm not running for office, then, isn't it?

Being a private citizen gives one the freedom to tell it like it is.

Right........and today, I feel like insulting the majority of the electorate that voted for Bush. I hope I'm succeeding well enough.

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This is what's wrong.

Lola wrote:

Right........and today, I feel like insulting the majority of the electorate that voted for Bush. I hope I'm succeeding well enough.

For days now O BILL has been attacked by supposed friends for calling John Kerry a scumbag. But just look at all of the threads and posts by those that disagree with the outcome of the election. We are called stupid, racists, bigots, homophobes and on and on and on becasue we have a different opinion than you. You exclude those of us that you want to win over.

Federal posted a letter by a republican friend of his in another thread... while I don't agree with all that was said there he got one thing right...

YOU (read the democrats) need ME... and people like me.

You have been complaining for sometime now about the religious nuts that elected Bush. You aren't going to change their minds... but you have a chance of changing mine.

I am the person you should be trying to convince. But everytime you call me stupid or a sheep or tell me you need to "simplify" your ideas for me, everytime you call me a racist and a fascist or a homophobe all you do is push me farther away from your ideas.

I am none of those things... but you automatically group me with those that are... and every time that you do you drive the wedge that is dividing this country a little bit deeper.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Good thing I'm not running for office, then, isn't it?

Being a private citizen gives one the freedom to tell it like it is.

Cycloptichorn

Yes but....

A candidate is defined by his constituency.

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That doesn't bode well for Bush, then, does it?

Even you can agree with me that in some cases one would cringe...

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

That doesn't bode well for Bush, then, does it?

Even you can agree with me that in some cases one would cringe...

Cycloptichorn

Apparently it did, since they voted for him enough to give him a large popular vote and electoral vote margin.

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Ummm, let's try to stick to the topic, hey?

You guys want to debate the merits of Shrub v. Kerry, I'm sure there's a number of other places to do that.

The question at hand for us Dems is what went wrong and how do we fix it?

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Quote:

I am none of those things... but you automatically group me with those that are... and every time that you do you drive the wedge that is dividing this country a little bit deeper.

If you're none of those things........I take it you didn't vote for Bush. I am angry today.......and for now, if you want to be convinced, maybe you should visit another thread. On this thread we're being honest with each other and talking about what went wrong. Check me later on another thread and I might be more polite. Right now, I don't feel like it.

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blacksmithn wrote:

Ummm, let's try to stick to the topic, hey?

You guys want to debate the merits of Shrub v. Kerry, I'm sure there's a number of other places to do that.

The question at hand for us Dems is what went wrong and how do we fix it?

Listen to what the exit polls told you is important to the electorate and craft a campaign that focuses like a laser on the value judgments expressed.

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So we should all become Christians and take Bush's word for why he went to war, Larry? That's not what went wrong.........

What we need to do is learn more about how to be as devious in our tactics as the Republicans are now.

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Lola wrote:

Quote:
I am none of those things... but you automatically group me with those that are... and every time that you do you drive the wedge that is dividing this country a little bit deeper.

If you're none of those things........I take it you didn't vote for Bush. I am angry today.......and for now, if you want to be convinced, maybe you should visit another thread. On this thread we're being honest with each other and talking about what went wrong. Check me later on another thread and I might be more polite. Right now, I don't feel like it.

I know you're angry and all, but jpinMilwaukee was only replicating a portion of letter that was posted by Federal in another thread, the purpose of which was to try and answer the question this thread has posed.

Quote:

YOU (read the democrats) need ME... and people like me.

You have been complaining for sometime now about the religious nuts that elected Bush. You aren't going to change their minds... but you have a chance of changing mine.

I am the person you should be trying to convince. But everytime you call me stupid or a sheep or tell me you need to "simplify" your ideas for me, everytime you call me a racist and a fascist or a homophobe all you do is push me farther away from your ideas.

I am none of those things... but you automatically group me with those that are... and every time that you do you drive the wedge that is dividing this country a little bit deeper.

So maybe you shouldn't be angry at JP?

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Lola wrote:

So we should all become Christians and take Bush's word for why he went to war, Larry? That's not what went wrong.........

What we need to do is learn more about how to be as devious in our tactics as the Republicans are now.

Feel free to ignore the values expressed in the exit polling, if you wish. But don't be surprised when you get the same whupping in election 2008. :wink:

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Larry434 wrote:

Listen to what the exit polls told you is important to the electorate and craft a campaign that focuses like a laser on the value judgments expressed.

I call that pandering to the lowest common denominator. IF that's what it takes to win, I'm out of here. I just won't vote.

Besides, John Kerry, rightly or wrongly, was criticized soundly for doing just that.

Lola -- Being devious is hard for me. I'm willing to learn, but only for a candidate and a platform that covers at least some of the things I consider important.

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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

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