I'll separately deal with the question of how one so capable of patient, objective, reasoned analysis of complex matters could end up with such awful political affiliations.
When some idiot accuses me of being anti American just because I dissent from the administration's policies I feel I am being attacked by a very dangerous person, the true subversive in the thread. That sort of person prefers dictatorship over freedom.
I'll separately deal with the question of how one so capable of patient, objective, reasoned analysis of complex matters could end up with such awful political affiliations.
The author's point is well-taken, I'd assume - anyone who sets out towards the "heartland" with the notion that the people who live there are ignorant, bigoted chauvinists, is not very likely to succeed in winning much sympathy there.
Actually, the geographically correct term is "flyover country", not "heartland".
"Flyover Country" also has its overtones of blue state elitism. Looks like Thomas' recent travels have taken him to New York and California.
Quote:During the counter culture revolution of the 60's and 70's, the more radical left wing took control of the Democrat party and have steered it way left of center ever since. Unfortunately the far left views traditional values with derision and contempt and thus separates itself from the center and right who aren't ready to dissolve all they value and hold dear. Whatever side you are on in the gay marriage issue for instance, some gay rights groups abetted by some activist judges are pushing for the definition of marriage to be changed. That isn't hype. It is a reality. It is unfair to say those who value traditional marraige are overhyping it and making it a bigger deal than it actually is. You can go right down the line on every issue and see that it isn't hype but the choice between preserving a policy/law/tradition versus changing that policy/law/tradition.It's all in perspective. I don't know how old you are, Freeduck, but 30 to 40 years ago, not so long in the grand scheme of things, the Democrats were the party of of traditional values.
Sometimes change is beneficial, important, necessary. Sometimes it isn't. But if one side tells the other side that they are evil, corrupt, stupid, ignorant, ill informed, etc. etc. etc. because of the position they hold, you can bet you'll make a lot of those people determined to defend their position or at least mad enough to go vote.
During the counter culture revolution of the 60's and 70's, the more radical left wing took control of the Democrat party and have steered it way left of center ever since.
Unfortunately the far left views traditional values with derision and contempt and thus separates itself from the center and right who aren't ready to dissolve all they value and hold dear.
Whatever side you are on in the gay marriage issue for instance, some gay rights groups abetted by some activist judges are pushing for the definition of marriage to be changed. That isn't hype. It is a reality.
Sometimes change is beneficial, important, necessary. Sometimes it isn't. But if one side tells the other side that they are evil, corrupt, stupid, ignorant, ill informed, etc. etc. etc. because of the position they hold, you can bet you'll make a lot of those people determined to defend their position or at least mad enough to go vote.
Let's take these one by one.
Quote:During the counter culture revolution of the 60's and 70's, the more radical left wing took control of the Democrat party and have steered it way left of center ever since.
This is false. In fact, the truth is precisely the opposite. Political scientists Keith Poole, Howard Rosenthal and Nolan McCarty have done quantitative measurements on votes (in Congress and Senate) against a right/left spectrum over time. By these measurements, the Clinton government is considerably more right wing than was the Eisenhower government. That trend, to the right, has been steady.
A notable exception to the message delivered by McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry.
Quote:
Unfortunately the far left views traditional values with derision and contempt and thus separates itself from the center and right who aren't ready to dissolve all they value and hold dear.
There is no 'far left' left.
I agree, with a few notable exceptions, Bill Clinton, John Breaux, Mary Landrue and perhaps a couple of others, the whole Dem party agenda is far left.
As to treating traditional values with derision and contempt...what traditional values? That whites are superior to blacks? That was a traditional value once.
And now only held by a very few racists and some liberal Dems who believe they need preferential treatment to succeed.
That Christianity is superior to other faiths?
Some think so, but that is there value judgment, not a universal truth.T
Quote:
Whatever side you are on in the gay marriage issue for instance, some gay rights groups abetted by some activist judges are pushing for the definition of marriage to be changed. That isn't hype. It is a reality.
Some civil rights groups, abetted by some activist judges, dismantled segreation and institutional racism. Where congresses and electorates thought racism a jimdandy phenomenon, the courts acted as a bulwack to protect the rights of those disadvantaged and held to be half-citzens.
Homosexuals are "disadvantaged". In what way?
What, inherently, is wrong or inappropriate or undemocratic about 'changing definitions'? Marriage was once defined as between two white or two blacks but not one black and one white. Were we to never redefine definitions, then wives would be still be property.
Quote:
Sometimes change is beneficial, important, necessary. Sometimes it isn't. But if one side tells the other side that they are evil, corrupt, stupid, ignorant, ill informed, etc. etc. etc. because of the position they hold, you can bet you'll make a lot of those people determined to defend their position or at least mad enough to go vote.
Yup, like Evangelical Christians defend against that.
As a pragmatic argument, sure. Alabamans got up in arms and defensive when outside folks said that their racism was evil, morally corrupt, and that those who voiced such sentiments were stupid or ignorant. But, of course, they were those things.
Seriously though: When I look at nimh's statistics about where the Democrats lost the most votes, I notice that they are by and large the groups where I'd expect that the Democrats have the most votes to lose. (Latinos, Jews, women, big cities ...). Do you know a way of accounting for this "stock of votes to lose" effect[?]
I agree, with a few notable exceptions, Bill Clinton, John Breaux, Mary Landrue and perhaps a couple of others, the whole Dem party agenda is far left.
Quote:I agree, with a few notable exceptions, Bill Clinton, John Breaux, Mary Landrue and perhaps a couple of others, the whole Dem party agenda is far left.
Larry
You repeat this, as does foxfyre again. I've just layed out the ways in which this is pretty clearly seen to be, in significant ways, an empirically wrong idea.
Precisely in what ways is the modern democratic party more 'left' than it was in Adlai Stevenson's time?
