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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

 
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 02:47 am
McTag wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
McTag,

Are the beliefs expressed in the letter of the unhappy woman from Cleveland yours as well? Appears to me that she has a somewhat jaundiced view of the country, and of the possibilitires in life as well. (I might feel bad too if I lived in Cleveland.)


No, actually not. I am not a Bush supporter though, but I love and feel a kinship with America which is why I visit A2K and try to follow what is going on. The Republican majority vote is a remarkable one, and one which has to be respected.

I think however there are dark forces at work in America, and all those Stepford-wives christians make me afraid for its future. Kerry had a tough job asking for a change in leadership during a "war", even though the war, it seems to me, was a device started in part to ensure the conservatives increased their hold on the country.



Bush had a harder position convincing people to vote for him during a war he initiated.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 02:49 am
Although the terrorists initiated the war and are keeping it going. Bush responded to it strongly and has kept the pressure on them.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 02:58 am
Liberals can fix it by them stop being so pessimistic. By not acting against our true allies. By looking out for America's best interests and not listening to special interest groups and Hollywood rich nay sayers. By standing up to European beatniks and snobby parliamentary dictators that are filthy rich and haven't spent a day poor in their whole life.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:04 am
Liberals could stop criticizing cowboys and acting like they should be ashamed of their heritage.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 03:21 am
Lola wrote:
...This is an interesting perspective on the question. A platform based on values.........true liberal values......might be much easier to sell than one based on plans and explanations of programs. Many of the American people want to feel righteous. They want to feel comfortable and safe in the belief that they are doing "right." So we could dress up the progressive message in inspiring but simple clothes and see if we could score with this group.

And for the obsessive ones, there could be enough detail to provide security..........That should cover all the bases.

So in other words we could go with the right/wrong thing, but present our values as the right ones. Isn't that what we've been doing? It's called the Culture Wars, isn't it?

I don't know, I'd rather see an electorate that wants to struggle with the complexities and make the solutions their own........but, I suppose that's too much to ask.

Glad to see you've learned nothing and are getting ready to lose again next time.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 04:00 am
Just wondering- and apologies in advance if this question is too off-topic for some contributors-

Is it a matter of any concern to you, that for the first time in its history the USA is opposed by all the developed countries in the world, with the possible exception of Israel?

Opposed, I mean, in terms of its stance and chosen course of action against the terrorism threat, its record on ecological protection and conservation, foreign policy and international trade?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 04:08 am
And also wondering, since the exit polls were so different from the final results, in Florida for example; why?

It's all very well having reasonable discussions about how the Dems can improve their showing at the ballot box. Was it Lenin who said "It doesn't matter who votes. It's who counts the votes that matters." There were various moves ranging from the sharp to the illegal in Florida under Jeb Bush, to suppress the Dem vote in that state, both before and after this election. What is the view in the US about the validity of the result, with new electronic machines in place?
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 05:43 am
McTag asked
Quote:
Is it a matter of any concern to you, that for the first time in its history the USA is opposed by all the developed countries in the world, with the possible exception of Israel?


Well, first the President of the US will tell you that's not true and then he will tell you that it doesn't matter because he is on a mission from god. His supporters don't see that as a flip-flop although anyone ought to able to see that he is flippy, as in quite mad. He will point to the news that Georgia will be sending help soon. Thank goodness, Georgia, we and Poland thought we were by ourselves in this.

It should be quite clear by now that this administration believes that the American hegemony of the world is complete and unassailable, rather like England thought about a hundred- fifty years ago when it invaded the Middle East. Wish us better luck.

Quote:
And also wondering, since the exit polls were so different from the final results, in Florida for example; why?


Exit polls are supposed to be raw data from which reporters can check to see if there is a developing story. Years ago, and I'm talking twenty five years ago, the public didn't know there was such a thing as an exit poll because the data was used as PART of the picture. Zoom forward to the age of the internet where all information, raw or otherwise, is tossed out onto the airwaves (cable? Satt-uplink?) without regard to the fact that the raw information can become the story.

There used to be something called a news cycle. It was the period of time between the last publishing of a story and the present look at the same facts. It used to be as much as three or four days. I was listening to Bob Hager of NBC say his goodbyes last night. He was a reporter for thirty years or so, back in the time when stories were sent in on film to be edited and broadcast days or even weeks later.

Today, a reporter standing on a street corner in Boston or New York or Paris can interview sources and go on air minutes later and then ten minutes later in the world of CNN/FOX/MSNBC be asked to update the report. That's not a news cycle, that's a news blink, the result of which is the effort to make the story grow even if it's only ten minutes old. So reporters look for anything to say that's new even if it's not neccessarily news.

In the story, stories, using exit polls data reporters were letting the story feed on itself and because the 'news' fit pretty much what their expectations were they were comfortable in reporting the raw information as news even though the producers of the information has cautioned numerous times about how to use the information.

Next time, we discuss the role of the news producer/editor and why they are a nearly extinct breed.

Joe
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:12 am
McTag wrote:
Just wondering- and apologies in advance if this question is too off-topic for some contributors-

Is it a matter of any concern to you, that for the first time in its history the USA is opposed by all the developed countries in the world, with the possible exception of Israel?



Vladimir Putin appeared overjoyed to read of Bush's reelection the other day. Russia in my view would be the single most valuable ally we could possibly have in any sort of a struggle against Islammic terrorism.

Other than that, Jesus himself said that the path to righteousness is narrow, and the path which guys like Kerry and Jacque Chirac and their ilk follow, wide. To answer your question, it doesn't bother me in the least.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:15 am
Gosh. Jesus also said that thing about rich people getting into heaven (camel through eye of needle, you know). How's it looking for Cheney and Bush on that one? And how's you bank account?
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:22 am
blatham wrote:
Gosh. Jesus also said that thing about rich people getting into heaven (camel through eye of needle, you know). How's it looking for Cheney and Bush on that one? And how's you bank account?


On that basis, unfortunately, I'd get into heaven rather easily. There's no logical reason for the less than wealthy to approve of criminality or vote for democrats however.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:25 am
Gosh. Jesus also said that thing about rich people getting into heaven (camel through eye of needle, you know). How's it looking for Cheney and Bush on that one?

That would be up to Jesus, not us.

And how's you bank account?

Growing, as is my portfolio.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:33 am
So, who here is judging, at the risk of themselves being judged?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:36 am
That would be you.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:57 am
gungasnake wrote:
Other than that, Jesus himself said that the path to righteousness is narrow, and the path which guys like Kerry and Jacque Chirac and their ilk follow, wide. To answer your question, it doesn't bother me in the least.

Wow, Jesus said that? Verse 22, "And In the year 2000, a Man named Jacques Chirac will plague upon the earth, and he shall be Doomed to Scarce Chances to Reach Heaven's Gate?"

Man, he had foresight.

(How can fellow conservatives just let this kind of nonsense go by without ever saying anything about it - even when they take the opportunity to tell those who rebut it off?)

And Joe Nation, a good answer to MCTag's question about the vote's vailidity/exit poll-actual results discrepancies. We need more common sense like that on our side now.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 07:57 am
The meek shall inherit the earth- if that's all right with everybody else.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 08:09 am
The meek are welcome to anything left standing.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 08:18 am
I'll take that umbrella stand.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 08:19 am
Except that umbrella stand.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 08:20 am
Tthe meek shall inherit the whole can of worms.
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