0
   

Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 09:09 pm
Well other than Hanson being a 'Christian fanatic"--I strenuously object to that characterisation--I think I showed that his area of expertise is most likely not anywhere as narrow as you implied, nor is his credibility dismissed as you implied. Further he farmed for 5 years of his adult life and has been teaching, writing, and lecturing for the last 21 years which hardly makes him a farmer by trade.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 09:40 pm
LOL Foxfyre - you're mistaken in thinking "farmer" a term of derogation. In the words of a bumper sticker I'd seen in London years ago while agricultural subsidies were about to be abolished:

"If you must speak against farmers don't do it with your mouth full."
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:10 am
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:11 am
Hey HofT, I'm descended from farmers and grew up in small farming communities though I can't say I really grew up on a farm. But nobody will catch me speaking of farmers derogatorily. I was just commenting that a person who has been out of farming for more than 20 years can't really be said to be a farmer by trade. You seemed to have a very negative impression of Professor Hanson, and of course that is your right. I just thought you characterized him unfairly and incorrectly so put my two cents worth in.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 10:12 am
Quote:
March 08, 2005, 7:49 a.m.

"When Good News Strikes"
Glum liberals' try coping with a changing world.

0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 01:48 pm
So Soderberg goes on national TV spewing the Dems Against Democracy line that they really want the Mid East policies to fail Shocked

Add Dean heading the Democratic party to that list, along with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Teddy, Byrd, and Carter, and we've got some GREAT targets!

What a GRAND time to be a Conservative! Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 03:13 pm
It is fun to be on the happy side of issues isn't it? Smile

You have to feel sorry for the liberals. They are in the thorny position of having to find some way to show that success is failure for if they rejoice in whatever good happens, people like them can't get elected to much of anything. But how depressing it must be to make evil out of what is good? How lucky we conservatives are to be able to laugh and be glad and encouraging and hopeful with other peoples.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 08:24 am
David Warren: Feeding the Wave

How many times have I had to tell you, gentle reader, to read anything President Bush says. There was a joke made by the louche webloggist, Wonkette, to the effect that the Bush administration has been sadly lacking in empty gestures. The President not only seems to mean almost everything he says, he seems to act on it soon after. This is, as my reader must agree, very eccentric behaviour in a politician. I'm not saying Mr. Bush utters deathless prose; I'm just saying read his texts if you want some clue to what is going to happen next. (Always archived at whitehouse.gov.)

This instruction applies particularly to his address yesterday to the U.S. National Defence University in Fort McNair, near Washington. It contained several dozen hints that the U.S. would now be accelerating, in its engagement with the Middle East. It also contained one pregnant little dropped allegation of fact: that the U.S. government is convinced the recent terror blast in Tel Aviv was ordered from Damascus, not from the usual sources on the Palestinian West Bank.

More was being said through that than meets the ear. Mr. Bush was not only telling Bashir Assad, the Syrian dictator, that he has drawn a bead on him. He was signalling beyond this that the U.S. is no longer interested in keeping what happens to Israel in a separate file from what happens elsewhere. He was thus subtly insinuating "peace with Israel" into the agenda of Arabs and other Muslims demonstrating for democracy in spreading waves throughout the region.

Now turning to those, let's take three items I noticed in yesterday's news, glancing through the Internet:

In Kuwait, the parliament is speeding work on a bill to give the vote to women, and allow them to stand as political candidates (as in Iraq and Afghanistan), while several hundred women activists hold vigil outside. From the pictures I've seen, few of these ladies were wearing the proper head covering.

In Cairo, protesters for an opposition party are telling President Mubarak they are not entirely happy with his plan to let other candidates run in Egypt's next presidential election. This is because after reading the small print, they think any such election will be rigged. They think that, perhaps, if Mr. Mubarak and his anointed son were neither of them candidates in such a next election, it might have more chance of being free and fair.

In Multan, Pakistan, several thousand women rallied in defence of the rights of Mukhtar Mai, a woman who was gang-raped, probably on the orders of a village council.

There are many more reports, of demonstrations from Morocco to Pakistan, but I chose these three because I've now seen photographs. What struck me in each case was the mixing together of well-dressed, middle-class, respectable people -- of the type who normally calculate they have too much to lose by yelling in the street -- with poorer and more ragged people. And shoulder to shoulder, in the same causes. And each cause was, for its location, a direct affront not only to the powers-that-be, but to their most basic attitudes.

I don't think any of these demonstrations would have happened without the extensive television coverage now spreading through the Arab and Islamic world of Lebanon and Iraq. Several of my correspondents in the region have pointed out, that Al Jazeera's "pro-terrorist" coverage in Iraq has backfired, because Arabs watching the footage of anti-government demonstrations take away a powerful impression that such demonstrations should be possible.

The subtext is more eloquent than the text in these cases. For, yes, Al Jazeera often only covers people marching against America and her allies. But also, yes, the Americans and their "running dogs" also permit such protests. Viewers know their own dictators permit no such thing. Or rather, have only started allowing that sort of thing as a way to release pressures that their police forces tell them are building, quickly, everywhere.

As I've said before, the reason the large, flag-waving, anti-Syrian demonstrations have been happening in Beirut is not because the occupying Assad regime has suddenly gone soft. It doesn't have the option of going soft; no dictatorship does.

These people are rallying because, after Afghanistan and Iraq, they believe the United States Mediterranean fleet now offers them real cover. And they' re watching the Assad regime pulling back tanks and troops towards the Bekaa Valley and the Syrian frontier, chiefly because President Bush is publicly and plainly telling them to pull back. Many American flags have been waved among the Lebanese ones by the demonstrators.

What Mr. Bush was saying yesterday, over the shoulders of his audience to the people campaigning for freedom and democracy across the Islamic world, was, in my paraphrase: "You are right to think you have the full support of my people, government, and military. The freedom bell is ringing, do not hesitate to rise."

_____________________________________________________
HOMERUN!!!
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 09:11 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Hey HofT [...] You seemed to have a very negative impression of Professor Hanson, and of course that is your right. I just thought you characterized him unfairly and incorrectly so put my two cents worth in.


Foxfyre - it's not my intention to comment on the subject of Professor Hanson further: if you read what I already posted you'll see that (i) I didn't characterize him "incorrectly" and that (b) in posting on European politics he's outside his area of expertise.

Next: all this triumphalism about the spread of democracy in the Middle East conveniently overlooks the fact that in each and every case the locals were allowed to vote they voted for Islamic parties. Massive political instability, conducive to deadly foreign and domestic interventions, will inevitably follow free elections in those lands. Neocons in general (including Hanson) appear singularly oblivious to the fact that their most-favored-nation, Israel, will not escape widespread destruction in the area; Pipes, alone among them, seems to be slowly coming to grips with that danger. As President Bush notes however we don't plan to reverse policy - which is fine by me <G>
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 10:56 am
I think what others seem to discount is that democracy is bigger than pro-Western leaning governments.

I think there may be some that thought the Bush proponents were trying to fashion pro-Western governments--and because the administrations chosen aren't immediately apparent as pro-Western, somehow Bush has failed.

The goal isn't pro-Westernism. The goal is empowerment of the MEasters--a taste of self-determination.... These things don't happen immediately. They evolve. Finally the first step has been taken. It will evolve by itself now. All we have to do is be a good gardener.

People will not long vote to oppress themselves.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 11:11 am
Lash - that's for sure; what's at issue is how the inescapable consequences of their votes may affect our own Middle Eastern policies, specifically support for Israel. In the words of someone who foresaw the dangers of fanatical support for a foreign country:
_____________________________________________________________

"...And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens, (who devote themselves to the favorite nation,) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation."
The Farewell Address of
President George Washington
Sept. 17, 1796
_____________________________________________________________
http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/washbye.html
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 02:03 pm
A successful war against facistic repression they can't endorse, an economy that continues to improve at historic pace despite their wishes, electoral disaster, growing rapprochement with recently disaffected European powers, escalating scandals involving the UN, democracy breakin' out all over the place, the initiation and progress of Medicare, Social Security, financial, corporate governance, labor, environmental and judicial reforms for which they can take no credit, all along with the recent inconveniences their beloved liberal media icons have inflicted upon themselves, and a President they detest, one who says what he means, does what he says, and gets it done, just to top it off ...


No wonder The Democrats are an unhappy lot here of late. To them, it understandably must appear to all be goin' wrong.

Now, given the nature of politics and public mood, one may expect an eventual reversal of the present rightward pendulum swing. By the looks of things, The Democrats seem to be doin' their level best to place the inevitable occurrence of that eventual reversal into the realm of geologic timescale.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 02:32 pm
Democrats fall on the ball

Partisan politics in Washington this season are getting interesting, as a few Democrats are cautiously beginning to challenge their leadership's strategy of total opposition to major Bush initiatives. It is dawning on some Democrats that their all-defense strategy may not pair up well with President Bush's all offense strategy.

President Bush plays politics the way my friends and I used to play pick-up football when I was a kid. In the huddle, the quarterback would tell everyone else to go out long. On the snap the quarterback would dance around in the backfield until one of us five or six receivers got open, at which point he would complete the pass. With both sides going long all the time, we often ended up with basketball scores.

The Democrats, on the other hand, when on offense, merely receive the snap and fall on the ball. When on defense, they put all their men on the line, trying for a quick sack of the quarterback. If the quarterback is too agile for them, they are vulnerable to be scored upon, given their lack of a pass defense.

When two such teams meet, the best score the all-defense Democrats can hope for is a 0-0 tie. The best score the all-offense Republicans can expect is at least a 56-0 win. So far, since 2001 the score is about 42-0, the president having completed passes on tax cuts and the economy, the Afghan war, the Iraq war, the Middle East democracy project, prescription drugs and class-action lawsuits, among the major items.

In the next couple of months and years the president is going to throw long on Social Security, bankruptcy reform, asbestos litigation reform, judicial appointments, Medicaid reform, Medicare reform and tax simplification. So to the 36 obstructing Democrats: Keep it up, and have a nice post-Senate life.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20050308-094130-5762r.htm

Laughing
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 02:43 pm
Yeah f*ckin right, Timber.

Quote:
A successful war against facistic repression they can't endorse


Take a lesson from your leader; don't declare things a 'success' until they are over.

Quote:
an economy that continues to improve at historic pace despite their wishes


Our markets still haven't recovered to the levels they were at pre-9/11. We have a larger national debt than previously. Our trade defecits are ridiculous. Our national defecit is ridiculous. We aren't acting fiscally responsible from any standpoint, as a nation. Only a Republican could claim that the first four-year period in the last 70 years with large net job losses is 'historic improvement.'

Quote:
electoral disaster


51% isn't a disaster. If it had been 65-35 Bush, that would have been a disaster. Democrats didn't do terribly in the Congress either considering the loss of four Dem senators due to redistricting in Texas.

Quote:
growing rapprochement with recently disaffected European powers


Yeah, noone believes this is actually true but the Neocons. European gov'ts still hold the same posititions they did on every issue, and we have actively lost support in many areas.

Quote:
escalating scandals involving the UN


It's not like Americans weren't involved in said scandals. And what does that have to do with Democrats, anyways?

Quote:
democracy breakin' out all over the place


Really? Where?

Quote:
the initiation and progress of Medicare, Social Security, financial, corporate governance, labor, environmental and judicial reforms for which they can take no credit


We wouldn't want credit for the 'reforms' you are talking about; the majority of them are completely terrible legislation. Such as, I don't know, the prescription drug plan which now costs three times as much as it did when presented for a vote; or cutting 60 billion dollars from Medicaid; or a Social Security plan which is unfunded and will, according to real-life examples, leave many poor folks out in the cold whilst making the rich richer; Environmental legislation that is pro-business and anti-environment, rolling back laws decades; a complete lack of adressing outsourcing or reforming tax laws to punish it; running our country into a huge defecit/debt, not addressing critical trade imbalances, ignoring warning signs from economists that we need to change the course.

Oh, and let's not forget the Judicial reforms: making torture legal, encourgaging it's use, and shipping folks to other countries to be tortured. That's a nice one.

What makes you think the dems would want credit? Sheesh.

Quote:
all along with the recent inconveniences their beloved liberal media icons have inflicted upon themselves


Your conservative Icons are no better; One is a sex offender, one is a drug user, one is a male prostitute, one regularly changes quotes about past presidents(=lies), one is a raving psychopathic racist Bitch. You can fill in the names well enough.

Quote:
and a President they detest


You got that part right!

Quote:
one who says what he means, does what he says, and gets it done, just to top it off ...


"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

YEAH RIGHT, he does what he says and gets it done. Pull the other one!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 02:47 pm
Cyclops << Weep...gnash.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 02:52 pm
Just calling it as I see it. Who would want to take credit for such things?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 03:29 pm
Cyclo - I betcha none of your friends ever have to worry about worrying, 'cause you do enough worrying for everyone!
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 03:49 pm
That football analogy has to be one of the STUPIDEST ones I have ever seen. It ignores the simple fact that there are consequences long after the acts of congress are passed. We don't all get to go home after 3 hours, waving our pennants and giant fingers and forget about what Bush did, we have to live with it.

Bush has pushed much of his legislative agenda through congress sure, but the long term scoring is hardly done. What will be the consequences of his tax cuts? So far, we see claims of short term growth because of it but we also see long term problems. The reform of the bankruptcy law may seem like a great victory today but it may have adverse consequences not even dreamed about yet. The list is long, the wait for the final outcome even longer.

You can trumpet his success all you want today. The future is just as likely to see him as a fascist thug as it is to see him as the messiah that saved the US. This is more like a baseball game that you declare you won because you scored 5 runs in the first inning and used all your pitchers to stop the opposing team. There are at least 8 innings left and as Yogi said, "It ain't over til it's over." Now we have to live with the consequences of Bush's actions.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 03:54 pm
Repubs 91
Dems 0
Bottom of the first.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2005 04:23 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Repubs 91
Dems 0
Bottom of the first.



You and Timber are both leaving out the obvious question of what the dems are gonna do to try to top the ticket they just ran. One possibility (bumper sticker):


http://designeduniverse.com/pics/arnold_iscariot.gif
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 04/16/2024 at 05:24:44