Bush supporters' aftermath thread

The Democratic Loyalty Quiz
The Democratic Loyalty Quiz
10 Questions to Test Your Allegiance to the Democrats

Q: What's the greatest threat to American democracy?

The corporate takeover of American government
Born-again fundamentalists who want to turn America into a theocracy
The emergence of a Big Brother-style fascist dictatorship
Terrorist-appeasing liberals who recklessly criticize their president in wartime
The gay agenda of SpongeBob SquarePants

Q: Michael Moore once said, "I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a 'deserter.' What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar, and a functional illiterate. And he poops his pants." What's your opinion of the remark?

Funny
Not funny
He should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize
He should be sent to Guantanamo Bay and piled into a naked pyramid

Q: Which bumper sticker would you be most likely to put on your car?

Killing For Peace Is Like Screwing For Virginity
I Voted For Kerry - Before I Didn't
At Least In Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy
Who Would Jesus Bomb?
My Honor Student Beat Up France
Frodo Failed - Bush Has The Ring

Q: Was the Iraq war worth it?

Yes, mission accomplished
Yes, they attacked us on 9/11 and payback is a bitch
No, it's a total freaking disaster that's turning into another Vietnam
I don't know, I'm too busy trying to figure out why I'm still paying $2.50/gallon for gas after we took over the world's second largest oil reserve

Q: What statement best describes your opinion of Bill Clinton?

He was a great president who brought peace and prosperity
He was a masterful politician who outwitted, outplayed, and outlasted the vast right-wing conspiracy
It depends on what the meaning of the word draft-dodging, pot-smoking philandering national disgrace is
He left the country in recession and vulnerable to attack on 9/11 because he was too busy getting his winky whacked

Q: In a perfect world, American would be ____

France
A global leader in the struggle against poverty, global warming, and infectious diseases
Cleansed of all warmongering, gas-guzzling, Bible-thumping zealots and bigots
Cleansed of all abortion-loving, French-appeasing, gay-marrying sodomites and sinners

Q: Fox News Channel can best be described as ____

Fair and balanced
Fairly unbalanced
A little slanted, but nothing compared to the pervasive bias of the dominant liberal media establishment
A shameless propaganda outfit that would have made Hermann Goering proud

Q: Which of the following do you find most offensive?

A vice president who tells a Senator to "go f--- yourself" on the Senate floor
A reverend who calls for blowing up terrorists "in the name of the Lord"
A presidential candidate who reminds everyone the vice president's daughter is a lesbian
A comedian who performs a comedy routine featuring sexual puns on Bush's name
A first lady who performs a comedy routine featuring a joke about the time her husband gave a hand-job to a horse

Q: President Bush's tax cuts ____

Were a shameless giveaway to the obscenely rich
Saved me money, but not nearly as much as my offshore tax shelter
Would have been better spent securing our ports, borders and nuclear plants against possible terrorist attack
Were a nice start, but I won't be satisfied until we have a 15% flat tax and government is shrunk to a size were it can be drowned in the bathtub

Q: The best way for Democrats to regain power is to ____

Stand on principle and regain the backbone they lost when they caved to Bush on tax cuts and Iraq
Block the Republican agenda at every turn and portray them as right-wing extremists drunk with power
Distance themselves from Michael Moore, MoveOn.org, and other left-wing extremists who give Dems a bad name
Embrace mainstream values by supporting bans on abortion and gay marriage
Shut up and fly the flag

You don't have to be an amnesiac to be a Democrat, buddy, but it helps
Gerard Baker
The Times
November 17, 2005

Excerpt

ATTENTION EVERYBODY:

Apparently the House is scheduled for a late afternoon or early evening showdown session on whether to pull out of Iraq now. This will be aired on C-Span I. I am hearing 5:30 pm to 7 pm Eastern and other conflicting times.

It will be interesting to see who is willing to go on the record on this.

Blatham,
You said...


You sir,are an outright liar!!!

FYI...
Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
www.va.gov

"He is a 1961 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, N.Y. He served eight years on active duty as a paratrooper and Ranger-qualified Army officer, then 22 years in the Army Reserve, retiring with the rank of colonel. While serving in Vietnam, he earned the Bronze Star Medal, Combat Infantryman Badge, the Meritorious Service Medal, Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry and two Air Medals."

Now,I can find more if you want,but the fact that even one member of the cabinet is a veteran proves your statement wrong and that you are a liar.

Does this ommission mean I lose credibility with you!?

Ok then, let's drop the term "administration" which includes the secretary pool, a den of fighters, and the ex-campaign workers now ensconsed in positions of responsibility and safety in the Green Zone, and a lot of other people of whom I admit I know absolutely nothing of, as was the case with Jim (who you helpfully noted above).

Let's go with the "anyone at the senior administration level associated with the instigation of the war except Powell (who, as you know, argued against the war). Does that work for you, mm?

Let's make a deal. You can call me a liar still (I won't even have tico explain why the term is mis-applied, I'll let that go) and you can admit that all those folks in the administration who fomented this war have oddly colored livers.

Blatham,
I called you a liar because you claimed as FACT that nobody in the current admin had served.
You did not say "as far as I know",you did not preface it in any way,you claimed it as absolute fact.

That is why I called you a liar.

Now,I have to ask.
Why was it ok for Clinton to go to war,even though he had never served and had in fact dodged the draft?

Arent you applying a double standard?

I understand there's a guy in the White House boiler room who's a Vietnam vet, too. Better apologize, Blatham!

Are you saying a Cabinet Secretary doesnt count as being in the current administration?

I am still failing to understand where a military history plays any role in electing our leaders. That's why the Joint Chiefs of Staff exist. To advise the president, a civilian, on all matters regarding the military.

I would defy anyone to say the JCoS has no military background...

Pick a fight with John Murtha. He's the one who mentioned Cheney's multiple deferments during the war. Of course, that was after Cheney impugned Murtha's patriotism...

You got a quote on that D'art? Last time someone made a similar accusation, it was inaccurate.

mm

I understand why you applied the term.

Double standard? To some degree, likely. I tend to be more forgiving of politicians with whom I share key ideas or for whom I have a lot of respect (eg McCain or Lindsay Graham).

But note the context of my post. It followed on a claim by foxfyre that:

There's no evidence to support the notion that Bush (and the folks around him who crafted this war) are not wimps and cowards. What makes them brave, manly and macho? That's been a huge and hugely expensive sales/marketing campaign (the aircraft carrier landing, the constant background of soldiers for his speeches, the scripted tone of his speeches, the 3 million dollar (if I recall correctly) PR center in the green zone, etc). The truth is that none of the key players felt it important to risk themselves when it was their turn. I mean, what can we make of Bolton's statement when contrasted with his vim at others fighting and dying? It's morally bankrupt and repugnant.

What foxfyre speaks of, and what was presented, was precisely a cartoon portrayal designed to manipulate citizens. There was no comparable PR (and I mean that in the worst way, purposefully deceitful) from Clinton and his staff.

And that is my beef re fighting/dodging for a politico.

I did not support any of Clinton's actions initially, other than Somalia. I came around on Yugoslavia after a bit. Haiti I still think an abomination.

I don't like war and think that America falls to it far too easily and almost always for reasons not related to improving conditions for the badly-off, but instead for self-interest and through the dynamics of what Eisenhower warned you of.

A slight embarrassment for me is that I hold war is justifiable under some of the same rationales advanced (theoretically) by the neoconservatives - that is, to actually try and make the world safer for citizens. But I think it was not such rationale (other than protection of Israel) that advanced this war.

That is an example of the cartoon portrayal of machismo and PR manipulation that I truly cannot stomach. It is counter to reality. It is a walking lie. Murtha and Max Cleland vs five deferments. And who is brave and who is worthy of moral disgust in that equation.

Your support appears then to have a stringly negative correlation with the benefits achieved from the interventions.

Somalia was an ill-conceived and poorly executed disaster that benefitted no one. The intervention in the former Yugoslavia did a great deal of good, though it came too late to save tens of thousands of Bosnians (who were exterminated by Serbian militias - in some cases in the immediate vicinity of European troops sent there to protect them). Haiti is an example of problems that may have no external solution at all.

the paradigm for republican interventionisn will remain fixed in my mind as Grenada.

Are you sure your mind is fixed?

Actually it was quite successful - in spite of some operational errors and missteps. The airfield the Cubans were building was intended to enable them and the Soviets to stage TU-114 transport aircraft close enough for a non-stop flight to Angola, where a Cuban mercenary army was supporting the Socialist government. We had successfully brought about sufficient denial of overflight and landing rights in Africa to preclude large-scale Soviet aid to their proxies in Angola and the Grenadan airfield was an attempt at an end run. Wew foiled that and prevented far worse problems in Angola.

hi georgie

Initial support doesn't have the advantage of seeing end consequences. You make guesses as educated as you are, and consider the risks that the local civilians will either end up better or worse off.

I did not support any of Clinton's actions initially, other than Somalia. I came around on Yugoslavia after a bit. Haiti I still think an abomination.