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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 02:20 am
I saw Mr Bush on television yesterday. He was promising that although Trent Lott's mansion was destroyed, it would be built back up again as good as before.

What a comfort to hear that would have been to the people in the Superdome.

What a colossus, the great uniter.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 06:25 am
I didn't see a thing wrong with MM's post, or that it referenced the less than edifying discussion that preceded it. There was no gloat and no disrespect. It was a statement. Nothing more.

If you want to see (or criticize) some insensitivity, scurry on over to Timber's thread and have at it.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 09:57 am
BBB
Amigo wrote:
You know, I was kidding at first but we really should consider finding a way to keep Bush on vacation for the welfare of the country. Not to mention save us any farther embarrassment.


Trouble with your idea is that Dick Cheney is vice president---then followed by Speaker Dennis Hastert. The line of succession does not allow for any relief.

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 10:02 am
lastmoderate
lastmoderate wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
I hate to break up this lovefest,but Fox news is reporting that chief justice Rehnquist has just died.
That gives Bush 2 USSC apointments.


Perhaps Justice O'Connor will decide to postpone her retirement?


I don't know about that. Justice O'Connor's husband has Alzheimer's Disease. I think she wants to retire to take care of him.

You know how emotional women are. :wink: Love is more important than a black robe.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 05:28 pm
Something for the Left and the Right here, and I think the last paragraph says it all:

Sunday, September 04, 2005
A Flood of Bush Bashing
by Debra Saunders

It is only a matter of hours now that, after any catastrophe anywhere in the world -- a tsunami, a hurricane, a terrorist bombing on the London tube -- Bush haters find ways to blame President Bush. Hurricane Katrina? Bush haters have pointed their fingers at global warming, the war on terror, the Bush tax cuts, the national dependence on oil -- and in every category, Bush is the root of the evil.

Forget nature. George W. Bush is more powerful.

The German environment minister and U.S. enviro Robert F. Kennedy cited global warming as a cause for the hurricane. It doesn't matter if data show, as James Glassman of TechCentralStation pointed out, the peak for major hurricanes came in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. Columnist Molly Ivins criticized Bush for cutting $71 million from the New Orleans Corps of Engineers -- even though the levee that broke had just been upgraded.

Article Continues Below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are National Guardsmen in Iraq? Yes, some 35 percent are, but more are in Louisiana, and nearby police and firefighters can pitch in.

Bush haters who want to appear less rabid than their quick counterparts wait a whole day or so. Thursday, The New York Times editorial page hit Bush for delivering a bad speech about the hurricane's aftermath, for grinning while he spoke and for asking Americans to donate cash but not asking them to sacrifice.

The day before, the paper opined, "This seems like the wrong moment to dwell on fault-finding, or even to point out that it took what may become the worst natural disaster in American history to pry President Bush out of his vacation."

It's not as pithy as some of the other anti-Bush slogans, but here's an idea for a T-shirt slogan: "Clinton vacationed at Martha's Vineyard, and nobody died." Others have lighted on left-leaning targets.

They blame residents of New Orleans for living in a city built largely below sea level. They fault homeowners who live near the beach. Of course, industries like shipping and tourism exist because of those locations. When you think about it, every locale has its hazard, be it hurricane, blistering heat, blizzard, earthquake or tornado.

Some blame families that did not heed the call to evacuate -- including families that didn't have cars, money or places to go to.

On the right, there is triumph in how the left should be held accountable for America's failure to build more refineries -- as the hurricane damage drives up the price of gasoline.

Some gloat that if the left had allowed drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the nation's oil supply would not be an issue. And what about all those liberal Californians who drive SUVs?

Say what you will, but all of the above arguments are a luxury. Alabama families are dredging water from their living rooms. In the Big Easy, women have had to wade through the nasty liquid clutching a few belongings.

And for them, the big issues were: Where do I go? What will I do for work? Where is my dog? Did my neighbor make it? How long will I have to sleep in a shelter? Do I even want to go back to the town that I call home? They aren't stranded because of politics, SUVs or climate change. They are stranded because a planet that graces us with sunshine and warmth also makes storms.

They are stranded because a powerful storm cut a swath through their universe. They thought they could handle it. They survived Camille, or some other storm, and they thought they'd be better off at home. They wanted to be near their families and their pets.

They never knew it could get this bad. They had made the same choice before, and it worked for them.

This time, what worked before failed. At times like this, Americans need to help each other.

Copyright 2005 Creators Syndicate
LINK
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Sep, 2005 10:06 pm
McTag wrote:
But you can be sure political operators on Capitol Hill were active on this well before the Justice's sad end.


Foxfyre wrote:
There was no gloat and no disrespect.



Mysteryman broke in to the thread to report the news. If I turned on the TV and the newscaster said the same thing Mysteryman did, I think it would be in bad taste.

To state the news of the Rehnquist's passing and the political significance in the very next sentence implies that the politics are the most important thing about the story. I feel that that the death of any Supreme Court Justice is a significant story in and of itself, and the political situation should be reported a bit later in the account.

And yes, even though I frequently disagreed with Rehnquist's opinions, when I heard he had cancer that normally was terminal and saw him continue to work, I found myself cheering him on to beat it.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 05:52 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Something for the Left and the Right here, and I think the last paragraph says it all:

This time, what worked before failed. At times like this, Americans need to help each other.

Copyright 2005 Creators Syndicate


Not only Americans, but everbody else too.

But this is a disaster for the Bush administration as well as the folks down south. I fervently hope he doesn't manage to spin his way out of this one.
Let us help America, as well as by supplying material needs, by pointing out the damage this man and his administration have done.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 08:28 am
McTag, you have many commendable qualities. Being a positive influence isn't one of them. Smile
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 10:49 am
Foxfyre
Foxfyre wrote:
McTag, you have many commendable qualities. Being a positive influence isn't one of them. Smile


Don't you see the irony in your statement? I doubt you would think anything positive is possible that is also critical of the Bush administration. It appears you think that positive is only contingent on supporting Bush and the Republican Party.
Anything that is anti Bush et al must be negative no matter how positive it actually is.

Sheeeesh!

BBB Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:39 pm
Sorry BBB, but only a devoted Leftie could think that being negative is the same thing as being positive.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 01:50 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Sorry BBB, but only a devoted Leftie could think that being negative is the same thing as being positive.


Not so. Speaking personally, it is my mission here to present a point of view which is widespread overseas, and which seems to be gaining more ground in the States, that this administration has been a very bad servant of the country it was elected to serve.

What's bad for Bush is eventually good for America. Positive, not negative.
Read blatham's post today on another thread. He put it so well, an explanation of how we have got to here.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58637&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 02:05 pm
McTag wrote:
Not so. Speaking personally, it is my mission here to present a point of view which is widespread overseas, and which seems to be gaining more ground in the States, that this administration has been a very bad servant of the country it was elected to serve.


This reminds me that I wanted to post my "favourite Monday newsletter" already earlier :wink:

Quote:
The Wrap: A worm's eye view

Monday September 5, 2005


Anyone who imagined that George Bush feels a responsibility to the poor was deluding themselves, writes Andrew Brown

The backlash against George Bush seems to be spreading right across America, even among the people who normally believe all his nonsense. This is of course satisfying and welcome. While there are still corpses floating through the streets of New Orleans he has joked that one of his buddies' houses will be rebuilt, better than ever. He deserves a shameful end.

There are particular, identifiable decisions that he made which made the catastrophe worse. He appointed incompetent cronies to important jobs. He starved of money the agencies that might have maintained the levees. He did nothing to prepare for the disaster, which was long foreseen as a possibility, and clearly likely in the four or five days before the hurricane actually landed.

But we need to be balanced here, and to apply to Bush the same standards as we apply to the looters in the ruins of New Orleans. Like them, he has a personal responsibility for his actions - but we must also suppose that, like them, he might have been a harmless, even a useful member of society if it were better organised.

Obviously he was not responsible for the hurricane. Maybe even the subsequent catastrophe wasn't his fault. The really frightening possibility is that Bush isn't responsible for the failure of the relief efforts, and that no modern president could have done much better.

In this context, it's useful to think about moral hazard. This is usually applied to reasoning about the poor: for example, if generous social security means no penalty for idleness, and no reward for hard work, then we can expect more idleness and unemployment than otherwise. But there is moral hazard to riches too. George Bush has never in his entire life been punished for failure, and neither has anyone he has appointed. Disloyalty or insubordination are the only crimes he recognises. Should we blame him or the system?

Quite probably, the federal emergency management agency would have done a better job had Gore or Kerry been president. It's hard to see that it could have done worse. But the point about such speculation is that it's irrelevant. Given the choice of better men, the system threw up Bush, twice. The second time he even won the election. It will seem to historians quite absurd that such an untried child of privilege should have even run for president, let alone succeeded. Say what you like about British democracy, but we would not even elect Mark Thatcher to a seat in parliament, and his business career is at least as distinguished as Bush's.

But democracies can survive bad leaders. That is their best justification: they don't guarantee immediate success, but they do provide a more efficient, and less bloody means of punishing failure than any alternative. The test will be to see whether America will realise that the aftermath of the hurricane was a failure that mattered, and that demands democratic action. My guess is that it will carry on much as before.

When seven - not seven thousand - black illegal immigrants were killed in a house fire in Paris last month, the famously rightwing interior minister was down at the scene the next morning, taking his chances with an angry crowd, promising that measures would be taken. Why did Nicolas Sarkozy do this? Because he wants to be president, and he knows that he will be helped to this, in France, by showing that the state cares when catastrophe strikes even the poorest and meanest citizen. That's just not true in the USA, which is why we must blame the system for Bush, as well as indulging our natural disgust at his character flaws.

A fearful hatred of the black poor is far too deeply embedded in American politics for anything to change. A country that really believed the poor had human rights, or even the rights of ordinary citizens, would not have allowed its president to react to Katrina as Bush did. But neither would it tolerate the American prison system, or the American health insurance system. All these things are not merely tolerated, but made worse.

Time after time, it has been proved that the way to win elections in America is to promise to grind the faces of the poor still harder. No politician can fight this fact. Look at the things that Bill Clinton did to be elected, the retarded black man he had executed to show that he was tough. That was his moral hazard.

I suspect that Bush's core vote won't be affected at all by the scenes in New Orleans. On the contrary, this frightful failure of government will be taken by the right as proof that federal government can't do anything except wage war. But the trouble with believing that your government is a worthless excrescence is that sooner or later, you will find that it is true - and by then, it will be too late.

* Andrew Brown maintains a weblog, the Helmintholog.


source: The Wrap, one of Guardian Unlimited's paid-for services. http://www.guardian.co.uk/wrap
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 04:22 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Sorry BBB, but only a devoted Leftie could think that being negative is the same thing as being positive.


If a child brings home a failing grade which is better? To be positive and let them keep failing or to point out their weaknesses so they can get a better grade in the future? I guess it depends on whether you want surface positivity or a real positive outcome.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 05:08 pm
No child needs to have their weaknesses pointed out. THey know their weaknesses. Children need to have their strengths pointed out. They need to know that you believe they can succeed, that failure is a temporary setback and they are capable of doing better. If you think about it you know this in your own heart. Criticism that emphasizes your weaknesses is a poor motivator.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 05:42 pm
Can I mention one thing that everyone seems to be forgetting.
Lets look at the sheer size of the disaster.
According to reports I have heard on both CNN and Fox news,approximately 90,000 square miles are affected by the hurricane and need assistance.
Lets compare that to other areas,ok.

The state of Oregon is 97,060 square miles, or 251,418 km.
That is from here...
http://www.el.com/to/oregon/facts/

Now,the United Kingdom is even smaller then that...
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

Look at that website and you will see that the UK is
Area:
total: 244,820 sq km
land: 241,590 sq km
water: 3,230 sq km
note: includes Rockall and Shetland Islands
Area - comparative:
slightly smaller than Oregon

So,we have an area that is approx the same size as the UK that has been devastated by the hurricane,and people are complaining that everything wasnt done at once.
That makes no sense to me.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 05:43 pm
I agree, MM.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 07:16 pm
I wonder if anybody could have prepared for a three-state wide swath of devastation?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 07:24 pm
just wondering, how many billions of $ have we spent to do just exactly that---prepared?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 11:31 pm
Well that was an interesting piece, Walter. I also have the feeling that GWB's core support will not be affected by this too much- we'll see.

A lot of the troops in Iraq are from the poorer southern states, no doubt. I'm wondering how this is affecting morale out there. They won't be able to reach their folks. Theye don't know whether their home is still standing. A very difficult time for all.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2005 12:22 am
Bush's core support won't be affected.

I can only wonder why but it's not much place to denigrate those who support him even though I can't understand them. And I always did find that notion of "false consciousness" highly offensive - not that you're suggesting that I know. I've heard it used in Australia where where some of the more extreme left start spouting about the "false consciousness" of those workers who vote conservative.

I know it's frustrating but that's democracy for you, everyone gets to vote for whom they wish.
0 Replies
 
 

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